Re: Kosovo and DU

There is no question that Serb military authorities were involved in some
civilian mass murders. Bosnia was a much  worse, and more complex, war than
Kosovo. How and why it was provoked is more complex than just saying, as the
media does, that the Serbs were bloodthirsty for no reason. What would the
U.S. government do if Florida tried to secede?  Or Chicago? It is the
one-sided ease that some people accept U.S. imperialism's propaganda that
bothers me. And obviously, Dissent magazine has a long history of defending
the AFL-CIO (CIA's) support of fascist regimes. It's nice that you opposed
the Panama invasion, although in all your words, I still haven't seen the
fundamental condemnation of U.S. imperialism, including
Carter-Reagan-Bush-Clinton expressed with the same energy as your
crititicism of murderer Milosevic.

I don't know anything about you, Michael, so you needn't carry on about your
credentials. I'm not attacking your character or you personally.  I have
been discussing the ideology of allying with liberal imperialism as the
lesser evil when in fact, it is the imperialist policies from economic
destruction to physical destruction that is, quantitatively, the greater
evil.  Qualitatively, or fundamentally, all those imperialists, from
Milosevic to Clinton, are equally bad.

Alan Spector




----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Pugliese" <debsian@pacbell.net>
To: <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Spector <spectors@netnitco.net>
> To: Michael Pugliese <debsian@pacbell.net>
> Cc: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
>
>
> >and while we are at it, there was quite a massacre and displacement of
> Serbs
> >in Bosnia, wasn't there? Calling the lies about how many Kosovars were
> >killed a "dead horse" is treating rather lightly such a Big Lie.
>
>    Estimates I've seen (groups from which I'm sure you would consider
biased
> like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty Int'l. , IWPR), put the total # of
> civilians killed from '92-'95 in the range of 200,000 in the Bosnian
> cinflict. The overwhelming # were Muslim and secondarily the Croatians.
> Wanna cite some #'s and sources of dead Bosnian Serbs?
> >
> >and then there's the Panama Invasion, about 3,000 mainly civilian dead by
> >U.S. military intervention.  The epithet of "Stalinist" can carry a
> >pro-liberal argument just so far.
> >
>    Yup, I've seen The Panama Deception. Even talked to the director,
Barbara
> Trent, after at a screening. You accusing me of cheerleading the invasion?
>   As for Stalinist, with or (w/o quotes, I'll dig up a book published in
the
> fSU in '37 that has Khruschev, Molotov and some other members of the CC of
> CPSU giving their proud tributes to Uncle Joe. And saying they were loyal
> Stalinists. The point being that not just
> liberal anti-communists, socdems and Trots throw the epithet around. If
> you've ever read any autobios of ex-Communists or talked in depth with any
> old timers who were active in the CPUSA you'd realize that, cadre and rank
> and filers in the Party had a huge psychological investment in being
> Stalinists. (As well as good militants without which we in the US probably
> would have never been able to gain reforms like the Wagner Act, Social
> Security and a whole slew of other reforms that have been/are being taken
> away by neo-libs and neo-con governence.)
>           Michael Pugliese, Revisionist Running Dog of Social Imperialism,
> Woof Woof! ;-)
>           Reading Dissent and TNR really makes me bay at the moon! Makes
me
> think I           see Uncle Joe with a pickaxe!
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Michael Pugliese" <debsian@pacbell.net>
> >To: <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> >Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 2:05 PM
> >Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
> >
> >
> >>   You are older than me I'd guess. You must remember the Bertrand
> >> Russell/J.P.Sartre war crimes tribunal around '67 or so on the Vietnam
> >War?
> >> If folks like that could put it together, sure. (used to have a pb. of
a
> >> book published by Vintage/Random House edited by Richard Falk and G.
> Kolko
> >> on War Crimes, that was a good source) But, not the Stalinists at
> IAC/WWP.
> >>
> >> Michael Pugliese
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Alan Spector <spectors@netnitco.net>
> >> To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> >> Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:53 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
> >>
> >>
> >> >But do you agree that Clinton-Gore should be brought up on War Crimes
> >> >charges for what they have done to the Iraqi people?
> >> >
> >> >===================================
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Michael Pugliese" <debsian@pacbell.net>
> >> >To: <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> >> >Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:23 AM
> >> >Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> For Alan and others...IWPR does great work. Check out the Chechnya
and
> >> >> Balkans Update lists there too. Now that B. Plavsic is on trial, I
> >> >suspexct
> >> >> that the former Bosnian Serb leadership around madman Karazdic is
> next.
> >> >And
> >> >> if y'all are gonna beat this dead horse about how many Kosovatrs
were
> >> >killed
> >> >> how come no one on the hard left brings up the 200,000 killed
(mostly
> >> >> Bosnian Muslims and Croats by the Serb neo-fascists with a Red-Brown
> >> >tinge
> >> >> ala Milosevic et. al.) during the Bosnian cinflict from the early
> 90's.
> >> >That
> >> >> is the foreground of the later slaughter by Milosevic et. al.
> >> >>                                         Michael Pugliese, just
another
> >> >> petty-boorrrjjjwwaaah liberal intelectual (with a just above minimum
> >wage
> >> >> job so I'm not sure about my P.B. class location, heh...)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> TRIBUNAL UPDATE 202
> >> >>
> >> >> Last Week in The Hague (December 4-9, 2000)
> >> >>
> >> >> GENERAL KRSTIC TRIAL  - Defence witness claims Mladic's intervention
> >> >spared
> >> >> Srebrenica an even worse fate
> >> >>
> >> >> KORDIC & CERKEZ TRIAL - Final witnesses called to the stand as trial
> >> draws
> >> >> to a close
> >> >>
> >> >> TUTA AND STELA CASE - Defendant pleads not guilty to amended charges
> >> >>
> >> >> CROATIAN PAPERS RISK CONTEMPT CHARGES -  Croatian newspapers warned
> >> >against
> >> >> publishing protected witness statements
> >> >>
> >> >> Tribunal Update is written by IWPR senior editor Mirko Klarin, a
> >leading
> >> >> Hague court correspondent, and Vjera Bogati.
> >> >>
> >> >> ****************** VISIT IWPR ON-LINE: www.iwpr.net **********
> >> >>
> >> >> GENERAL KRSTIC TRIAL  -  Defence witness claims Mladic's
intervention
> >> >spared
> >> >> Srebrenica an even worse fate
> >> >>
> >> >> The bloodshed in Srebrenica would have been "much worse" but for the
> >> >> intervention of General Ratko Mladic, a defence witness in the
Krstic
> >> >trial
> >> >> claimed last week.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yugoslav army general Radovan Radinovic, appearing as a military
> expert
> >> >for
> >> >> the defence, said the former Bosnian Serb army, VRS, commander
altered
> >an
> >> >> order from the entity's president Radovan Karadzic demanding the
> >> >> 'elimination' of the United Nations protected area.
> >> >>
> >> >> General Radislav Krstic, former commander of the VRS Drina Corps, is
> >> >charged
> >> >> with genocide for his alleged role in the Srebrenica massacres,
which
> >> >> claimed the lives of  at least 7,500 Bosnian Muslim men and boys.
> >> Krstic's
> >> >> defence team claim Mladic had taken over control of the Srebrenica
> >> >operation
> >> >> from the defendant before the killings started.
> >> >>
> >> >> Radinovic faced a difficult task disputing the analysis of
prosecution
> >> >> military experts, United States military intelligence analyst
Richard
> >> >Butler
> >> >> and British Major General Richard Dannett (see Tribunal Updates Nos.

> >182,
> >> >> 185 and 186).
> >> >>
> >> >> The witness served as a senior officer in the former Yugoslav
People's
> >> >Army
> >> >> and its successor, the Yugoslav army. He taught at military colleges
> >and,
> >> >> during the Bosnian war, served as an advisor to ex federal president
> >> >Dobrica
> >> >> Cosic, a vocal advocate of Serbian nationalism.
> >> >>
> >> >> Radinovic began by challenging Butler and Dannett's claim that the
> >> >> Srebrenica operation - code named Krivaja 95 - was well-planned,
> >complex
> >> >and
> >> >> precisely executed. He also disputed the presence of an effective
> chain
> >> of
> >> >> command, with Krstic at its head.
> >> >>
> >> >> The witness said Krivaja 95 was "not a big military operation". He
> >> >described
> >> >> the battle as "small in scope and of low intensity". Progress was
> slow,
> >> >> "with small losses on both sides and a very small degree of
> >destruction."
> >> >>
> >> >> The aims, according to Radinovic, were to "prevent subversive
> terrorist
> >> >> incursions by members of the 28th Division [of the
Bosnia-Herzegovina
> >> >Army],
> >> >> which violated the protected zone", to sever links between the
Muslim
> >> >> enclaves of Srebrenica and Zepa, and to reduce the size of the
> enclave.
> >> >>
> >> >> These goals were achieved on July 9, 1995, Radinovic said, when
units
> >> from
> >> >> the Drina Corps took up their planned positions on high ground
around
> >> >> Srebrenica.
> >> >>
> >> >> Then "a crazy plan to capture Srebrenica crossed someone's mind,"
the
> >> >> witness said.
> >> >>
> >> >> Radinovic said the decision to press on into Srebrenica was made by
> >> >> Karadzic, who as president of Bosnian Serbs was also supreme
commander
> >of
> >> >> the armed forces. Radinovic's conclusion was based on an order sent
to
> >> the
> >> >> Drina Corps forward command post on July 9, 1995, which read "the
> >> >President
> >> >> of the Republic approves the continuation of the attack and the
entry
> >of
> >> >the
> >> >> VRS into Srebrenica."
> >> >>
> >> >> Radinovic veers off at this point from the defence's basic argument
> >that
> >> >> Mladic had ordered the capture of Srebrenica and had taken over
> command
> >> of
> >> >> the operation from Krstic.
> >> >>
> >> >> But the witness did attribute responsibility for the crimes to the
> >> >> politicians and the police, who were under the control of the
Bosnian
> >> Serb
> >> >> government.
> >> >>
> >> >> Due to the "balance of forces" between the VRS and the BiH Army's
28th
> >> >> Division, no soldier had considered capturing Srebrenica, Radinovic
> >said.
> >> >He
> >> >> claimed BiH troops outnumbered the Bosnian Serb forces by almost 3
to
> >1.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Military doctrine," Radinovic said, dictated "attackers must
> >> >significantly
> >> >> outnumber defenders" in order to capture a town.
> >> >>
> >> >> That Srebrenica did fall, on July 11, 1995, was due more to the
> >failings
> >> >of
> >> >> the 28th Division and the BiH Army's supreme command. The
> international
> >> >> community was also partly responsible, he said.
> >> >>
> >> >> The 28th Division failed to defend the town effectively even though
it
> >> had
> >> >> sufficient manpower and arms to hold out "long enough for the
> >> >international
> >> >> community to get involved," Radinovic said.
> >> >>
> >> >> A decisive defence of the town would have forced the UN mechanism to
> >act,
> >> >> Radinovic argued. He said the international community's decision not
> to
> >> >take
> >> >> any action was "irresponsible".
> >> >>
> >> >> Radinovic said blame rested not only with the Dutch UN Protection
> Force
> >> >> Battalion in Srebrenica, but also with the then High Representative
> >Carl
> >> >> Bildt, UN Representative Yasushi Akashi and the commander of UN
forces
> >in
> >> >> Bosnia, British General Rupert Smith.
> >> >>
> >> >> Had these officials come to Srebrenica on July 11 and 12, 1995, the
> >> >> 'consequences' of the town's capture could have been avoided,
> Radinovic
> >> >> said.
> >> >>
> >> >> Radinovic did not deny the mass execution of prisoners of war, but
> said
> >> >most
> >> >> of the casualties were the result of heavy fighting between Drina
> corps
> >> >> units and troops of the 28th BiH Army division, which were trying to
> >> break
> >> >> through to Tuzla.
> >> >>
> >> >> "The intensity of the fighting was so great," Radinovic said, "it is
> >> >> realistic to express the losses in the thousands, rather than
> >hundreds."
> >> >>
> >> >> He criticised VRS headquarters for failing to "register properly"
> where
> >> >BiH
> >> >> Army soldiers were buried. Radinovic said those BiH officers
> >responsible
> >> >for
> >> >> the decision to try and break through VRS lines must have realised
> what
> >> >the
> >> >> likely consequences would be and that they had in effect "sacrificed
> >the
> >> >> 28th Division."
> >> >>
> >> >> That the bulk of the Drina Corps was involved in an operation near
> Zepa
> >> >was
> >> >> "lucky", Radinovic said, otherwise the losses experienced by those
> >trying
> >> >to
> >> >> get to Tuzla "would have been even graver."
> >> >>
> >> >> Radinovic faced three and half days of cross-examination by
> prosecutors
> >> >last
> >> >> week. British Major Andrew Caley led the prosecution's questioning.
> >> >>
> >> >> Caley immediately homed in on the directive from Karadzic, issued in
> >June
> >> >> 1995. Radinovic described the directive as a "list of desirable
aims"
> >and
> >> >> not as a binding order governing military operations.
> >> >>
> >> >> In the directive, Karadzic called for "daily planned and thought out
> >> >combat
> >> >> operations" to create "conditions and total insecurity,
intolerability
> >> and
> >> >> make impossible the further survival of life of the inhabitants in
> >> >> Srebrenica and Zepa."
> >> >>
> >> >> Under pressure from the judges, Radinovic was forced to agree with
the
> >> >> prosecutor this was a directive "to eliminate the Srebrenica
enclave."
> >> >>
> >> >> But Radinovic insisted Mladic, in his order (directive 7.1), had
> >changed
> >> >the
> >> >> Karadzic directive, deliberately replacing the phrase "elimination
of
> >> >> Srebrenica" with "active military actions around the enclave"
because
> >he
> >> >> understood all too well what Karadzic's order could lead to.
> >> >>
> >> >> "It was good that he did," said Radinovic, "because the consequences
> >> would
> >> >> have been much worse."
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> KORDIC & CERKEZ TRIAL - Final witnesses called to the stand as trial
> >> draws
> >> >> to a close
> >> >>
> >> >> The trial of Dario Kordic and Mario Cerkez, accused of crimes
against
> >> >> Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) civilians in central Bosnia, is finally
> >drawing
> >> >to
> >> >> a close.
> >> >>
> >> >> Final witnesses in the 19-month long case were called last week and
> >> >closing
> >> >> arguments from the prosecution and defence counsels are scheduled
for
> >> >> December 14 and 15.
> >> >>
> >> >> The final prosecution witness was Halid Genjac, a member of the
> >> >> Bosnia-Herzegovina tripartite presidency. During the Bosnian war,
> >Genjac
> >> >was
> >> >> president of the Bosniak Muslim Party of Democratic Action, SDA, in
> >> >Travnik.
> >> >>
> >> >> "From the beginning, the HDZ [Croatian Democratic Union] obstructed
> >> >> municipal political life," Genjac said. "That ended in complete
> >> blockade."
> >> >>
> >> >> In 1992, he said, "a kind of ultimatum" was issued demanding
Bosniaks
> >> join
> >> >> the Croatian Defence Force, or HVO. "We stressed recognition of the
> HVO
> >> >> government would be unconstitutional. The government in Travnik
could
> >not
> >> >be
> >> >> named after only one people."
> >> >>
> >> >> According to Genjac, the only legal institutions in the town were
the
> >> >> municipal presidency and the executive board.
> >> >>
> >> >> Kordic, as former vice-president of the so-called Croatian Community
> of
> >> >> Herceg-Bosna and of the HDZ in Bosnia-Herzegovina, is charged with
> >making
> >> >> the most important political decisions in central Bosnia.
> >> >>
> >> >> The defence claim Kordic exercised no political power. Genjac,
> however,
> >> >said
> >> >> the local Croatian leadership in Travnik "asked or quoted Kordic."
> >> >>
> >> >> Last week, the judges also accepted as evidence several documents
> >gleaned
> >> >> from Croatian archives.
> >> >>
> >> >> Of the large volume of material submitted by the prosecution, only
16
> >> >> documents were accepted by the judges as meeting their strict
criteria
> >> for
> >> >> the admission of new evidence at such a late stage in proceedings.
> >> >>
> >> >> The documents - HVO reports, orders and the logbook of the HVO
central
> >> >> Bosnia command - were deemed "sufficiently significant" for their
> >> adoption
> >> >> at such a late stage in the trial.
> >> >>
> >> >> At this stage, it is difficult to assess the new evidence presented
> >> >because
> >> >> not all the exhibits were read out in public and some of the
> >> prosecution's
> >> >> witnesses did not testify in open court.
> >> >>
> >> >> The new evidence includes allegations concerning Kordic's
> participation
> >> at
> >> >a
> >> >> meeting of central Bosnia political and military leaders in Vitez on
> >> April
> >> >> 15, 1993 - the eve of the Lasva valley HVO offensive.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is alleged those at the meeting laid down plans for the attacks
> >> against
> >> >> Bosniaks the following day.
> >> >>
> >> >> Kordic's defence team called three witnesses, HVO political and
> >military
> >> >> officials, to testify that the accused was not present at the
meeting
> >and
> >> >> that they also knew nothing of it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cerkez's lawyers focused on evidence implicating the accused in
> >> organising
> >> >> the attack on Ahmici on April 16, 1993, which left over 100 Bosniak
> >> >> civilians dead.
> >> >>
> >> >> The defence argued that reports sent by Cerkez, then commander of
the
> >HVO
> >> >> Vitez brigade, to his superiors about the "advances of the HVO
forces
> >on
> >> >> Ahmici" did not imply the defendant knew of or had responsibility
for
> >the
> >> >> massacre in the village.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> TUTA AND STELA CASE - Defendant pleads not guilty to amended charges
> >> >>
> >> >> Mladen "Tuta" Naletilic and Vinko "Stela" Martinovic pleaded not
> guilty
> >> >last
> >> >> week to amended charges concerning their alleged abuse of prisoners.
> >> >>
> >> >> The two men were accused of forcing prisoners to carry out dangerous
> >> >> military tasks such as transporting ammunition across front lines
and
> >> >> drawing enemy fire.
> >> >>
> >> >> The charges constitute violations of the laws or customs of war
and -
> >> >> following an amendment to the indictment relating to "dangerous and
> >> >> humiliating labour" - grave breaches of the Geneva Convention.
> >> >>
> >> >> Naletilic, former commander of the Convicts' Battalion, and
> Martinovic,
> >> >> former commander of the battalion's anti-terrorist unit, are accused
> of
> >> >> persecuting Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) in and around Mostar in 1993
> and
> >> >> early 1994.
> >> >>
> >> >> The prosecution claims the defendants were responsible for attacks
on
> >> >> civilians, illegal detention of civilians and of inhuman treatment
of
> >> >> prisoners under their control. They are also charged with murder,
the
> >> >forced
> >> >> expulsion of people and theft.
> >> >>
> >> >> Martinovic and Naletilic pleaded not guilty to all the original
> charges
> >> >> during their initial hearings shortly after their arrival at The
> Hague.
> >> >> Croatia extradited Martinovic in August 1999 and Naletilic in March
> >2000.
> >> >>
> >> >> Trial preparations are still underway. Pre-trial judge Patricia Wald
> >has
> >> >> asked the prosecution to reduce the number of witnesses it plans to
> >call
> >> >to
> >> >> between 50 and 60 and for the prosecution and defence to aim to
> present
> >> >> their respective cases within ten weeks.
> >> >>
> >> >> One unresolved pre-hearing issue is the prosecution's intention to
> >> include
> >> >> as material evidence affidavits from witnesses scheduled to be
> >> interviewed
> >> >> by representatives from the prosecutor's office.
> >> >>
> >> >> Martinovic is demanding to be present when the witnesses give their
> >> >> statements, because he argues this would contribute to their
accuracy
> >and
> >> >> reliability.
> >> >>
> >> >> The start date for the trial has yet to be set. "What we can say now
> is
> >> >that
> >> >> this chamber will tell both sides some time in March when this trial
> >will
> >> >> begin," presiding judge Almiro Rodrigues said.
> >> >>
> >> >> The three trial judges have said on several occasions the cases
could
> >be
> >> >> heard by a different trial chamber due to their already pressing
> >workload
> >> >> with the Srebrenica and Omarska hearings. Given the recent
> announcement
> >> of
> >> >> 27 additional temporary judges for the tribunal, a change of chamber
> >> looks
> >> >> even more likely.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> CROATIAN PAPERS RISK CONTEMPT CHARGES - Croatian newspapers warned
> >> against
> >> >> publishing protected witness statements
> >> >>
> >> >> Two Croatian newspapers, the weekly Globus and the daily paper
> Slobodna
> >> >> Dalmacija, could face contempt of court charges following their
> >> >publication
> >> >> of statements by Croatian President Stipe Mesic during a closed
> >tribunal
> >> >> hearing in 1998.
> >> >>
> >> >> The statements were given by Mesic in April 1998 during the trial of
> >> >former
> >> >> Bosnian Croat commander Tihomir Blaskic. Mesic was given protected
> >status
> >> >> and allowed to give evidence in a closed session.
> >> >>
> >> >> On December 1, the tribunal judges which originally heard the
Blaskic
> >> >case,
> >> >> issued an order requesting the Croatian papers stop publishing
> >statements
> >> >by
> >> >> protected witnesses. The order warned, "any publication of these
> >> >statements
> >> >> and testimonies shall expose its authors and those responsible to be
> >> found
> >> >> in contempt of the tribunal."
> >> >>
> >> >> The court also asked the Croatian authorities to take steps to halt
> >> >further
> >> >> publication of the statements.
> >> >>
> >> >> But on December 6, Slobodna Dalmacija published another transcript
> from
> >a
> >> >> closed court session involving the Croatian president. In his
> >> introduction
> >> >> to the story, the newspaper's editor- in-chief, Josip Jovic, said he
> >had
> >> >> disregarded the Tribunal's order because "there is an understandable
> >> >public
> >> >> interest in The Hague testimony of the current head of state."
> >> >>
> >> >> "The institution of keeping secrets does not apply to newspapers,"
> >Jovic
> >> >> added.
> >> >>
> >> >> The tribunal has yet to react to the Slobodna Dalmacija article.
> >> >>
> >> >> Tribunal spokesman Jim Landale said publication of protected
material
> >was
> >> >> "foolish and irresponsible". He reiterated the publication of such
> >> >material
> >> >> could constitute contempt of court. "It is up to the trial chamber
to
> >> take
> >> >> what measures it thinks necessary," Landale said, adding this could
> >> >include
> >> >> summoning a person to The Hague to respond to contempt of court
> >charges.
> >> >>
> >> >> On December 7, the Croatian government said it had no information on
> >how
> >> >the
> >> >> newspapers got hold of Mesic's testimony. It said the government did
> >not
> >> >> have cited minutes of Mesic's court appearance and did not know who
> the
> >> >> sources of such disclosures could be.
> >> >>
> >> >> Immediately after Mesic appeared at The Hague, material relating to
> his
> >> >> testimony leaked to the Croatian press. The reappearance of stories
> two
> >> >> years on, and well into Mesic's presidency, suggests the revelations
> >have
> >> >> more to do with Croatian domestic politics than anything else.
> >> >>
> >> >> Criticism in Croatia that the Tribunal court order amounted to
> >> >"censorship"
> >> >> and "interference with the freedom of the media" met short shrift
from
> >> >> prosecutor's office spokeswoman Florence Hartmann.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Publishing information given to the Tribunal through testimonies is
> >not
> >> a
> >> >> problem - their content will be known to the public through the
court
> >> >> sentences in any case," Hartmann said. "But the problem is when a
> >witness
> >> >> who gave them is identified because that will affect the readiness
of
>
> >> >other
> >> >> witnesses to make a statement before the Tribunal."
> >> >>
> >> >> "The publication of protected witnesses' names only makes it harder
> for
> >> >> prosecutors to collect information on crimes, and hence in
> establishing
> >> >the
> >> >> truth and administering justice."
> >> >>
> >> >> ****************** VISIT IWPR ON-LINE: www.iwpr.net*********
> >> >>
> >> >> These weekly reports, produced since 1995, detail events and issues
at
> >> the
> >> >> International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in
> The
> >> >> Hague, providing an independent and comprehensive account of the war
> >> >crimes
> >> >> process.
> >> >>
> >> >> Copyright (c) 2000 The Institute for War & Peace Reporting.
> >> >>
> >> >> Tribunal Update is produced under IWPR's Tribunal Monitoring
Project.
> >The
> >> >> project seeks to contribute to regional and international
> understanding
> >> of
> >> >> the war-crimes prosecution process.
> >> >>
> >> >> IWPR gratefully acknowledges the Swedish International Development
> >Agency
> >> >> and the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office for support for this
> >project,
> >> >as
> >> >> w ell as general support from the Ford Foundation.
> >> >>
> >> >> Articles are available, with permission, for free republication
within
> >> the
> >> >> region.
> >> >>
> >> >> The Institute for War & Peace Reporting (IWPR) is a London-based
> >> >independent
> >> >> non-profit organisation supporting regional media and democratic
> >change.
> >> >>
> >> >> Lancaster House, 33 Islington High Street, London N1 9LH, United
> >Kingdom
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> >> >>
> >> >> For further information on this project and other reporting services
> >and
> >> >> media programmes, as well as details for subscribing and
> unsubscribing,
> >> >> visit IWPR's Website: <www.iwpr.net>.
> >> >>
> >> >> Editor-in-Chief: Anthony Borden. Managing Editor: Yigal Chazan.
> >Associate
> >> >> Editor: Gordana Igric. Assistant Editors: Alan Davis and Heather
> >Milner.
> >> >> Editorial Assistant: Mirna Jancic. Kosovo Project Manager: Llazar
> >Semini.
> >> >> Translation: Alban Mitrushi and others.
> >> >>
> >> >> The opinions expressed in "Tribunal Update" are those of the authors
> >and
> >> >do
> >> >> not necessarily represent those of the publication or of IWPR.`
> >> >>
> >> >> IWPR'S TRIBUNAL UPDATE, NO. 202
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> {#} ----------------------------------------------------+[
> >> >trienglish ]+---
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Alan Spector <spectors@netnitco.net>
> >> >> To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> >> >> Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:05 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Immediately just before the NATO bombing on Yugoslavia began, the
> >> reports
> >> >> >were that 2,000 Kosovar Albanians had been murdered over the past
two
> >> >years
> >> >> >and that as many as 50,000, perhaps even 100,000 were about to be
> >> >murdered.
> >> >> >After the bombing, there was a massive forced displacement of
Kosovar
> >> >> >Albanians, including the murders of an unknown number.  Despite the
> >best
> >> >> >efforts of U.S. technology, including FBI forensic experts,
satellite
> >> >> >photos, etc, current estimates of bodies found range between 600
and
> >> >2,000,
> >> >> >and some of them might be Serbian victims.  Somewhere between 500
and
> >> >1500
> >> >> >Yugoslavians were killed as a direct result of the NATO bombing,
and
> >it
> >> >is
> >> >> >difficult to estimate how many more deaths will result from the
> >> >> consequences
> >> >> >of bombing roads and bridges, which doubtless has caused more
deaths
> >as
> >> >> >people in critical situations may be unable to get quick medical
> care.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >About the two years prior to the bombing and the initial US/NATO
> >> >rationale
> >> >> >of two thousand murders -- Kosovo has about 2 million people. Two
> >> >thousand
> >> >> >constitutes a murder rate of one/thousand, over two years.  Gary,
> >> Indiana
> >> >> >which adjoins my city of Hammond, has about 100,000 people and
> >> >> approximately
> >> >> >one hundred murders per year, or about one/thousand over one year.
> >Gary
> >> >has
> >> >> >twice the murder rate that Kosovo had.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >But that was enough of an excuse for US/NATO which was carrying on
> the
> >> >> older
> >> >> >imperial British strategy of destabilizing regions to keep them
weak
> >and
> >> >> >vulnerable, without actually having to physically occupy them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >It is true that some Serb military forces did commit war crimes. No
> >> doubt
> >> >> >there were individual soldiers, even perhaps some high ranking
> >military
> >> >> >officers who approved the execution of civilians. But nothing like
> the
> >> >> >ridiculous lies we were fed about 25,000 or 50,000. And if
"depleted
> >> >> >uranium" does cause cancer among civilians, if various other
actions
> >> such
> >> >> as
> >> >> >bombing chemical plants caused civilian deaths, then the charge of
> >"war
> >> >> >crimes" must be applied to the US/NATO effort. And all this pales
in
> >> >> >comparison to the massive civilian deaths caused by the US led
> embargo
> >> >> >against the Iraqi people, and of course the Vietnam War. And how
come
> >> >> people
> >> >> >are developing amnesia about the massive civilian deaths the U.S.
> >> >military
> >> >> >caused in Vietnam, as well as destabilizing the rest of Southeast
> Asia
> >> >and
> >> >> >laying the basis for many more outside Vietnam?  Why are people who
> >> >condemn
> >> >> >imperialism considered "fringe" or "hysterical"?  Because the
> >mainstream
> >> >> >liberal intellectuals serve their masters by lying outright in
> >> propaganda
> >> >> >service to these mass murderers. And no, that's not exaggeration.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Alan Spector
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Alan Spector
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >From: <franka@fiu.edu>
> >> >> >To: <wwagar@binghamton.edu>
> >> >> >Cc: <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> >> >> >Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 7:23 PM
> >> >> >Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> everything warren says is right - except the second sentence.
> >> >> >> there is no evidence of any such campaign, and the NATO/Brit
> >"defense'
> >> >> >> minister-now NATO head's, claim of 10,000 then 100,000 Albian
> >> massacred
> >> >> at
> >> >> >> Serb hands has turned out by Nato and other forenscic teams to
have
> >> >been
> >> >> >> less  than 2,000 - far too many but far fewer  than necessary to
> >whip
> >> >up
> >> >> >> popular support for the NATO mission = to expand eastward, and of
> >the
> >> >> >> 2,000 many were Albanian combatants and others probably were also
> >> >> >> Serbs. And as to the alleged Serb plan that Warren refers to,
> >> >> >> 1. the Germans invented an alleged such plan, which was then
shown
> >to
> >> >be
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> hoax, even in leaked German foreing ministry reports and [all
> >another
> >> >> >> Tonkin Gulf and incubator babies in Kuwait]
> >> >> >> 2. many Albanians fled into Serbia - from NATO!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> to beOn Sun, 14 Jan 2001 wwagar@binghamton.edu wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:37:08 -0500 (EST)
> >> >> >> > From: wwagar@binghamton.edu
> >> >> >> > To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu
> >> >> >> > Subject: Kosovo and DU
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > The well-deserved flap about DU should not obscure the
> fundamental
> >> >> >> > evil involved in the U.S./NATO rampage against Serbia.  I do
not
> >> >doubt
> >> >> >> > that Serbia had in mind a campaign that would drive many ethnic
> >> >> >Albanians
> >> >> >> > over the border, with ethnic Albanian casualties in the process
> >pour
> >> >> >> > encourager les autres.  The U.S. once engaged in "Indian wars"
to
> >> >> effect
> >> >> >> > the same result.  Be that as it may.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > The real point is that the United States and its "allies"
> >> >> >> > intervened in the affairs of a Balkan republic in the hope of
> >> >teaching
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> > lesson, to wit:  do not adjust your television sets, we are in
> >> >control,
> >> >> >> > and we will bomb into submission anybody who resists us.  If it
> >> helps
> >> >> us
> >> >> >> > to demolish your tanks by resorting to nuclear weapons, so be
it.
> >> We
> >> >> >are
> >> >> >> > above the law, if law there be, and we will use our technology
to
> >> >slice
> >> >> >> > you to ribbons.  Should any civilians on the ground die in the
> >> >process,
> >> >> >so
> >> >> >> > much the worse for them!  We're not trying to save them,
anyway,
> >> >we're
> >> >> >> > trying to assert our hegemony.  Should any of our precious
> >> >peacekeepers
> >> >> >> > die in the process, well, we never promised them a rose garden.
> >> >> >Besides,
> >> >> >> > they're not us!  They're expendable, right?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Of course the ultimate jest is the "D" in "DU."  The uranium is
> >> >> >> > depleted for any serious use in weapons or energy production,
but
> >if
> >> >it
> >> >> >> > remains radioactive for several millennia, hey, that's life!
Or
> >> >> >> > half-life.  Or death. ...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Yours in disgust,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Warren
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>                  ANDRE  GUNDER  FRANK
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>          1601 SW  83rd Avenue, Miami, FL.  33155 USA
> >> >> >>       Tel: 1-305-266  0311   Fax:  1-305  266 0799
> >> >> >>              E-Mail :  franka@fiu.edu
> >> >> >>    Web/Home Page:  http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/agfrank
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>