Re: Kosovo and DU

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Spector <spectors@netnitco.net>
To: Michael Pugliese <debsian@pacbell.net>
Cc: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU


>and while we are at it, there was quite a massacre and displacement of
Serbs
>in Bosnia, wasn't there? Calling the lies about how many Kosovars were
>killed a "dead horse" is treating rather lightly such a Big Lie.

   Estimates I've seen (groups from which I'm sure you would consider biased
like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty Int'l. , IWPR), put the total # of
civilians killed from '92-'95 in the range of 200,000 in the Bosnian
cinflict. The overwhelming # were Muslim and secondarily the Croatians.
Wanna cite some #'s and sources of dead Bosnian Serbs?
>
>and then there's the Panama Invasion, about 3,000 mainly civilian dead by
>U.S. military intervention.  The epithet of "Stalinist" can carry a
>pro-liberal argument just so far.
>
   Yup, I've seen The Panama Deception. Even talked to the director, Barbara
Trent, after at a screening. You accusing me of cheerleading the invasion?
  As for Stalinist, with or (w/o quotes, I'll dig up a book published in the
fSU in '37 that has Khruschev, Molotov and some other members of the CC of
CPSU giving their proud tributes to Uncle Joe. And saying they were loyal
Stalinists. The point being that not just
liberal anti-communists, socdems and Trots throw the epithet around. If
you've ever read any autobios of ex-Communists or talked in depth with any
old timers who were active in the CPUSA you'd realize that, cadre and rank
and filers in the Party had a huge psychological investment in being
Stalinists. (As well as good militants without which we in the US probably
would have never been able to gain reforms like the Wagner Act, Social
Security and a whole slew of other reforms that have been/are being taken
away by neo-libs and neo-con governence.)
          Michael Pugliese, Revisionist Running Dog of Social Imperialism,
Woof Woof! ;-)
          Reading Dissent and TNR really makes me bay at the moon! Makes me
think I           see Uncle Joe with a pickaxe!
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Pugliese" <debsian@pacbell.net>
>To: <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
>Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 2:05 PM
>Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
>
>
>>   You are older than me I'd guess. You must remember the Bertrand
>> Russell/J.P.Sartre war crimes tribunal around '67 or so on the Vietnam
>War?
>> If folks like that could put it together, sure. (used to have a pb. of a
>> book published by Vintage/Random House edited by Richard Falk and G.
Kolko
>> on War Crimes, that was a good source) But, not the Stalinists at
IAC/WWP.
>>
>> Michael Pugliese
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alan Spector <spectors@netnitco.net>
>> To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
>> Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
>>
>>
>> >But do you agree that Clinton-Gore should be brought up on War Crimes
>> >charges for what they have done to the Iraqi people?
>> >
>> >===================================
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Michael Pugliese" <debsian@pacbell.net>
>> >To: <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
>> >Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:23 AM
>> >Subject: Re: Kosovo and DU
>> >
>> >
>> >> For Alan and others...IWPR does great work. Check out the Chechnya and
>> >> Balkans Update lists there too. Now that B. Plavsic is on trial, I
>> >suspexct
>> >> that the former Bosnian Serb leadership around madman Karazdic is
next.
>> >And
>> >> if y'all are gonna beat this dead horse about how many Kosovatrs were
>> >killed
>> >> how come no one on the hard left brings up the 200,000 killed (mostly
>> >> Bosnian Muslims and Croats by the Serb neo-fascists with a Red-Brown
>> >tinge
>> >> ala Milosevic et. al.) during the Bosnian cinflict from the early
90's.
>> >That
>> >> is the foreground of the later slaughter by Milosevic et. al.
>> >>                                         Michael Pugliese, just another
>> >> petty-boorrrjjjwwaaah liberal intelectual (with a just above minimum
>wage
>> >> job so I'm not sure about my P.B. class location, heh...)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> TRIBUNAL UPDATE 202
>> >>
>> >> Last Week in The Hague (December 4-9, 2000)
>> >>
>> >> GENERAL KRSTIC TRIAL  - Defence witness claims Mladic's intervention
>> >spared
>> >> Srebrenica an even worse fate
>> >>
>> >> KORDIC & CERKEZ TRIAL - Final witnesses called to the stand as trial
>> draws
>> >> to a close
>> >>
>> >> TUTA AND STELA CASE - Defendant pleads not guilty to amended charges
>> >>
>> >> CROATIAN PAPERS RISK CONTEMPT CHARGES -  Croatian newspapers warned
>> >against
>> >> publishing protected witness statements
>> >>
>> >> Tribunal Update is written by IWPR senior editor Mirko Klarin, a
>leading
>> >> Hague court correspondent, and Vjera Bogati.
>> >>
>> >> ****************** VISIT IWPR ON-LINE: www.iwpr.net **********
>> >>
>> >> GENERAL KRSTIC TRIAL  -  Defence witness claims Mladic's intervention
>> >spared
>> >> Srebrenica an even worse fate
>> >>
>> >> The bloodshed in Srebrenica would have been "much worse" but for the
>> >> intervention of General Ratko Mladic, a defence witness in the Krstic
>> >trial
>> >> claimed last week.
>> >>
>> >> Yugoslav army general Radovan Radinovic, appearing as a military
expert
>> >for
>> >> the defence, said the former Bosnian Serb army, VRS, commander altered
>an
>> >> order from the entity's president Radovan Karadzic demanding the
>> >> 'elimination' of the United Nations protected area.
>> >>
>> >> General Radislav Krstic, former commander of the VRS Drina Corps, is
>> >charged
>> >> with genocide for his alleged role in the Srebrenica massacres, which
>> >> claimed the lives of  at least 7,500 Bosnian Muslim men and boys.
>> Krstic's
>> >> defence team claim Mladic had taken over control of the Srebrenica
>> >operation
>> >> from the defendant before the killings started.
>> >>
>> >> Radinovic faced a difficult task disputing the analysis of prosecution
>> >> military experts, United States military intelligence analyst Richard
>> >Butler
>> >> and British Major General Richard Dannett (see Tribunal Updates Nos.
>182,
>> >> 185 and 186).
>> >>
>> >> The witness served as a senior officer in the former Yugoslav People's
>> >Army
>> >> and its successor, the Yugoslav army. He taught at military colleges
>and,
>> >> during the Bosnian war, served as an advisor to ex federal president
>> >Dobrica
>> >> Cosic, a vocal advocate of Serbian nationalism.
>> >>
>> >> Radinovic began by challenging Butler and Dannett's claim that the
>> >> Srebrenica operation - code named Krivaja 95 - was well-planned,
>complex
>> >and
>> >> precisely executed. He also disputed the presence of an effective
chain
>> of
>> >> command, with Krstic at its head.
>> >>
>> >> The witness said Krivaja 95 was "not a big military operation". He
>> >described
>> >> the battle as "small in scope and of low intensity". Progress was
slow,
>> >> "with small losses on both sides and a very small degree of
>destruction."
>> >>
>> >> The aims, according to Radinovic, were to "prevent subversive
terrorist
>> >> incursions by members of the 28th Division [of the Bosnia-Herzegovina
>> >Army],
>> >> which violated the protected zone", to sever links between the Muslim
>> >> enclaves of Srebrenica and Zepa, and to reduce the size of the
enclave.
>> >>
>> >> These goals were achieved on July 9, 1995, Radinovic said, when units
>> from
>> >> the Drina Corps took up their planned positions on high ground around
>> >> Srebrenica.
>> >>
>> >> Then "a crazy plan to capture Srebrenica crossed someone's mind," the
>> >> witness said.
>> >>
>> >> Radinovic said the decision to press on into Srebrenica was made by
>> >> Karadzic, who as president of Bosnian Serbs was also supreme commander
>of
>> >> the armed forces. Radinovic's conclusion was based on an order sent to
>> the
>> >> Drina Corps forward command post on July 9, 1995, which read "the
>> >President
>> >> of the Republic approves the continuation of the attack and the entry
>of
>> >the
>> >> VRS into Srebrenica."
>> >>
>> >> Radinovic veers off at this point from the defence's basic argument
>that
>> >> Mladic had ordered the capture of Srebrenica and had taken over
command
>> of
>> >> the operation from Krstic.
>> >>
>> >> But the witness did attribute responsibility for the crimes to the
>> >> politicians and the police, who were under the control of the Bosnian
>> Serb
>> >> government.
>> >>
>> >> Due to the "balance of forces" between the VRS and the BiH Army's 28th
>> >> Division, no soldier had considered capturing Srebrenica, Radinovic
>said.
>> >He
>> >> claimed BiH troops outnumbered the Bosnian Serb forces by almost 3 to
>1.
>> >>
>> >> "Military doctrine," Radinovic said, dictated "attackers must
>> >significantly
>> >> outnumber defenders" in order to capture a town.
>> >>
>> >> That Srebrenica did fall, on July 11, 1995, was due more to the
>failings
>> >of
>> >> the 28th Division and the BiH Army's supreme command. The
international
>> >> community was also partly responsible, he said.
>> >>
>> >> The 28th Division failed to defend the town effectively even though it
>> had
>> >> sufficient manpower and arms to hold out "long enough for the
>> >international
>> >> community to get involved," Radinovic said.
>> >>
>> >> A decisive defence of the town would have forced the UN mechanism to
>act,
>> >> Radinovic argued. He said the international community's decision not
to
>> >take
>> >> any action was "irresponsible".
>> >>
>> >> Radinovic said blame rested not only with the Dutch UN Protection
Force
>> >> Battalion in Srebrenica, but also with the then High Representative
>Carl
>> >> Bildt, UN Representative Yasushi Akashi and the commander of UN forces
>in
>> >> Bosnia, British General Rupert Smith.
>> >>
>> >> Had these officials come to Srebrenica on July 11 and 12, 1995, the
>> >> 'consequences' of the town's capture could have been avoided,
Radinovic
>> >> said.
>> >>
>> >> Radinovic did not deny the mass execution of prisoners of war, but
said
>> >most
>> >> of the casualties were the result of heavy fighting between Drina
corps
>> >> units and troops of the 28th BiH Army division, which were trying to
>> break
>> >> through to Tuzla.
>> >>
>> >> "The intensity of the fighting was so great," Radinovic said, "it is
>> >> realistic to express the losses in the thousands, rather than
>hundreds."
>> >>
>> >> He criticised VRS headquarters for failing to "register properly"
where
>> >BiH
>> >> Army soldiers were buried. Radinovic said those BiH officers
>responsible
>> >for
>> >> the decision to try and break through VRS lines must have realised
what
>> >the
>> >> likely consequences would be and that they had in effect "sacrificed
>the
>> >> 28th Division."
>> >>
>> >> That the bulk of the Drina Corps was involved in an operation near
Zepa
>> >was
>> >> "lucky", Radinovic said, otherwise the losses experienced by those
>trying
>> >to
>> >> get to Tuzla "would have been even graver."
>> >>
>> >> Radinovic faced three and half days of cross-examination by
prosecutors
>> >last
>> >> week. British Major Andrew Caley led the prosecution's questioning.
>> >>
>> >> Caley immediately homed in on the directive from Karadzic, issued in
>June
>> >> 1995. Radinovic described the directive as a "list of desirable aims"
>and
>> >> not as a binding order governing military operations.
>> >>
>> >> In the directive, Karadzic called for "daily planned and thought out
>> >combat
>> >> operations" to create "conditions and total insecurity, intolerability
>> and
>> >> make impossible the further survival of life of the inhabitants in
>> >> Srebrenica and Zepa."
>> >>
>> >> Under pressure from the judges, Radinovic was forced to agree with the
>> >> prosecutor this was a directive "to eliminate the Srebrenica enclave."
>> >>
>> >> But Radinovic insisted Mladic, in his order (directive 7.1), had
>changed
>> >the
>> >> Karadzic directive, deliberately replacing the phrase "elimination of
>> >> Srebrenica" with "active military actions around the enclave" because
>he
>> >> understood all too well what Karadzic's order could lead to.
>> >>
>> >> "It was good that he did," said Radinovic, "because the consequences
>> would
>> >> have been much worse."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> KORDIC & CERKEZ TRIAL - Final witnesses called to the stand as trial
>> draws
>> >> to a close
>> >>
>> >> The trial of Dario Kordic and Mario Cerkez, accused of crimes against
>> >> Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) civilians in central Bosnia, is finally
>drawing
>> >to
>> >> a close.
>> >>
>> >> Final witnesses in the 19-month long case were called last week and
>> >closing
>> >> arguments from the prosecution and defence counsels are scheduled for
>> >> December 14 and 15.
>> >>
>> >> The final prosecution witness was Halid Genjac, a member of the
>> >> Bosnia-Herzegovina tripartite presidency. During the Bosnian war,
>Genjac
>> >was
>> >> president of the Bosniak Muslim Party of Democratic Action, SDA, in
>> >Travnik.
>> >>
>> >> "From the beginning, the HDZ [Croatian Democratic Union] obstructed
>> >> municipal political life," Genjac said. "That ended in complete
>> blockade."
>> >>
>> >> In 1992, he said, "a kind of ultimatum" was issued demanding Bosniaks
>> join
>> >> the Croatian Defence Force, or HVO. "We stressed recognition of the
HVO
>> >> government would be unconstitutional. The government in Travnik could
>not
>> >be
>> >> named after only one people."
>> >>
>> >> According to Genjac, the only legal institutions in the town were the
>> >> municipal presidency and the executive board.
>> >>
>> >> Kordic, as former vice-president of the so-called Croatian Community
of
>> >> Herceg-Bosna and of the HDZ in Bosnia-Herzegovina, is charged with
>making
>> >> the most important political decisions in central Bosnia.
>> >>
>> >> The defence claim Kordic exercised no political power. Genjac,
however,
>> >said
>> >> the local Croatian leadership in Travnik "asked or quoted Kordic."
>> >>
>> >> Last week, the judges also accepted as evidence several documents
>gleaned
>> >> from Croatian archives.
>> >>
>> >> Of the large volume of material submitted by the prosecution, only 16
>> >> documents were accepted by the judges as meeting their strict criteria
>> for
>> >> the admission of new evidence at such a late stage in proceedings.
>> >>
>> >> The documents - HVO reports, orders and the logbook of the HVO central
>> >> Bosnia command - were deemed "sufficiently significant" for their
>> adoption
>> >> at such a late stage in the trial.
>> >>
>> >> At this stage, it is difficult to assess the new evidence presented
>> >because
>> >> not all the exhibits were read out in public and some of the
>> prosecution's
>> >> witnesses did not testify in open court.
>> >>
>> >> The new evidence includes allegations concerning Kordic's
participation
>> at
>> >a
>> >> meeting of central Bosnia political and military leaders in Vitez on
>> April
>> >> 15, 1993 - the eve of the Lasva valley HVO offensive.
>> >>
>> >> It is alleged those at the meeting laid down plans for the attacks
>> against
>> >> Bosniaks the following day.
>> >>
>> >> Kordic's defence team called three witnesses, HVO political and
>military
>> >> officials, to testify that the accused was not present at the meeting
>and
>> >> that they also knew nothing of it.
>> >>
>> >> Cerkez's lawyers focused on evidence implicating the accused in
>> organising
>> >> the attack on Ahmici on April 16, 1993, which left over 100 Bosniak
>> >> civilians dead.
>> >>
>> >> The defence argued that reports sent by Cerkez, then commander of the
>HVO
>> >> Vitez brigade, to his superiors about the "advances of the HVO forces
>on
>> >> Ahmici" did not imply the defendant knew of or had responsibility for
>the
>> >> massacre in the village.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> TUTA AND STELA CASE - Defendant pleads not guilty to amended charges
>> >>
>> >> Mladen "Tuta" Naletilic and Vinko "Stela" Martinovic pleaded not
guilty
>> >last
>> >> week to amended charges concerning their alleged abuse of prisoners.
>> >>
>> >> The two men were accused of forcing prisoners to carry out dangerous
>> >> military tasks such as transporting ammunition across front lines and
>> >> drawing enemy fire.
>> >>
>> >> The charges constitute violations of the laws or customs of war and -
>> >> following an amendment to the indictment relating to "dangerous and
>> >> humiliating labour" - grave breaches of the Geneva Convention.
>> >>
>> >> Naletilic, former commander of the Convicts' Battalion, and
Martinovic,
>> >> former commander of the battalion's anti-terrorist unit, are accused
of
>> >> persecuting Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) in and around Mostar in 1993
and
>> >> early 1994.
>> >>
>> >> The prosecution claims the defendants were responsible for attacks on
>> >> civilians, illegal detention of civilians and of inhuman treatment of
>> >> prisoners under their control. They are also charged with murder, the
>> >forced
>> >> expulsion of people and theft.
>> >>
>> >> Martinovic and Naletilic pleaded not guilty to all the original
charges
>> >> during their initial hearings shortly after their arrival at The
Hague.
>> >> Croatia extradited Martinovic in August 1999 and Naletilic in March
>2000.
>> >>
>> >> Trial preparations are still underway. Pre-trial judge Patricia Wald
>has
>> >> asked the prosecution to reduce the number of witnesses it plans to
>call
>> >to
>> >> between 50 and 60 and for the prosecution and defence to aim to
present
>> >> their respective cases within ten weeks.
>> >>
>> >> One unresolved pre-hearing issue is the prosecution's intention to
>> include
>> >> as material evidence affidavits from witnesses scheduled to be
>> interviewed
>> >> by representatives from the prosecutor's office.
>> >>
>> >> Martinovic is demanding to be present when the witnesses give their
>> >> statements, because he argues this would contribute to their accuracy
>and
>> >> reliability.
>> >>
>> >> The start date for the trial has yet to be set. "What we can say now
is
>> >that
>> >> this chamber will tell both sides some time in March when this trial
>will
>> >> begin," presiding judge Almiro Rodrigues said.
>> >>
>> >> The three trial judges have said on several occasions the cases could
>be
>> >> heard by a different trial chamber due to their already pressing
>workload
>> >> with the Srebrenica and Omarska hearings. Given the recent
announcement
>> of
>> >> 27 additional temporary judges for the tribunal, a change of chamber
>> looks
>> >> even more likely.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> CROATIAN PAPERS RISK CONTEMPT CHARGES - Croatian newspapers warned
>> against
>> >> publishing protected witness statements
>> >>
>> >> Two Croatian newspapers, the weekly Globus and the daily paper
Slobodna
>> >> Dalmacija, could face contempt of court charges following their
>> >publication
>> >> of statements by Croatian President Stipe Mesic during a closed
>tribunal
>> >> hearing in 1998.
>> >>
>> >> The statements were given by Mesic in April 1998 during the trial of
>> >former
>> >> Bosnian Croat commander Tihomir Blaskic. Mesic was given protected
>status
>> >> and allowed to give evidence in a closed session.
>> >>
>> >> On December 1, the tribunal judges which originally heard the Blaskic
>> >case,
>> >> issued an order requesting the Croatian papers stop publishing
>statements
>> >by
>> >> protected witnesses. The order warned, "any publication of these
>> >statements
>> >> and testimonies shall expose its authors and those responsible to be
>> found
>> >> in contempt of the tribunal."
>> >>
>> >> The court also asked the Croatian authorities to take steps to halt
>> >further
>> >> publication of the statements.
>> >>
>> >> But on December 6, Slobodna Dalmacija published another transcript
from
>a
>> >> closed court session involving the Croatian president. In his
>> introduction
>> >> to the story, the newspaper's editor- in-chief, Josip Jovic, said he
>had
>> >> disregarded the Tribunal's order because "there is an understandable
>> >public
>> >> interest in The Hague testimony of the current head of state."
>> >>
>> >> "The institution of keeping secrets does not apply to newspapers,"
>Jovic
>> >> added.
>> >>
>> >> The tribunal has yet to react to the Slobodna Dalmacija article.
>> >>
>> >> Tribunal spokesman Jim Landale said publication of protected material
>was
>> >> "foolish and irresponsible". He reiterated the publication of such
>> >material
>> >> could constitute contempt of court. "It is up to the trial chamber to
>> take
>> >> what measures it thinks necessary," Landale said, adding this could
>> >include
>> >> summoning a person to The Hague to respond to contempt of court
>charges.
>> >>
>> >> On December 7, the Croatian government said it had no information on
>how
>> >the
>> >> newspapers got hold of Mesic's testimony. It said the government did
>not
>> >> have cited minutes of Mesic's court appearance and did not know who
the
>> >> sources of such disclosures could be.
>> >>
>> >> Immediately after Mesic appeared at The Hague, material relating to
his
>> >> testimony leaked to the Croatian press. The reappearance of stories
two
>> >> years on, and well into Mesic's presidency, suggests the revelations
>have
>> >> more to do with Croatian domestic politics than anything else.
>> >>
>> >> Criticism in Croatia that the Tribunal court order amounted to
>> >"censorship"
>> >> and "interference with the freedom of the media" met short shrift from
>> >> prosecutor's office spokeswoman Florence Hartmann.
>> >>
>> >> "Publishing information given to the Tribunal through testimonies is
>not
>> a
>> >> problem - their content will be known to the public through the court
>> >> sentences in any case," Hartmann said. "But the problem is when a
>witness
>> >> who gave them is identified because that will affect the readiness of

>> >other
>> >> witnesses to make a statement before the Tribunal."
>> >>
>> >> "The publication of protected witnesses' names only makes it harder
for
>> >> prosecutors to collect information on crimes, and hence in
establishing
>> >the
>> >> truth and administering justice."
>> >>
>> >> ****************** VISIT IWPR ON-LINE: www.iwpr.net*********
>> >>
>> >> These weekly reports, produced since 1995, detail events and issues at
>> the
>> >> International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in
The
>> >> Hague, providing an independent and comprehensive account of the war
>> >crimes
>> >> process.
>> >>
>> >> Copyright (c) 2000 The Institute for War & Peace Reporting.
>> >>
>> >> Tribunal Update is produced under IWPR's Tribunal Monitoring Project.
>The
>> >> project seeks to contribute to regional and international
understanding
>> of
>> >> the war-crimes prosecution process.
>> >>
>> >> IWPR gratefully acknowledges the Swedish International Development
>Agency
>> >> and the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office for support for this
>project,
>> >as
>> >> w ell as general support from the Ford Foundation.
>> >>
>> >> Articles are available, with permission, for free republication within
>> the
>> >> region.
>> >>
>> >> The Institute for War & Peace Reporting (IWPR) is a London-based
>> >independent
>> >> non-profit organisation supporting regional media and democratic
>change.
>> >>
>> >> Lancaster House, 33 Islington High Street, London N1 9LH, United
>Kingdom
>> >> Tel: (44 171) 713 7130 Fax: (44 171) 713 7140  E-mail info@iwpr.net
>> >>
>> >> For furthe