Re: So what!

Dear Khaldoun,

        I did not mean to suggest that the Ayatollah Khomeini, much less
Pat Robertson, are reincarnated feudal overlords and I agree with the
points you make.  Having pre-capitalist yearnings cannot, in our time,
lead to the creation of actual pre-capitalist societies.  See my post to
Till for a fuller discussion of the issues at stake.

        Also, by the way, I was not just inveighing against so-called
fundamentalist religion.  I include most "mainstream" religion as well.

        Warren


On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Khaldoun Samman wrote:

> Hi Warren and others,
>
> Thanks for that interesting post, but I think you are
> speaking to a like-minded audience when you discuss
> the negative potential of all fundamentalism.  On your
> argument that this politicized religion is
> "pre-capitalist" hits me, however, as being off the
> mark.  I don't mean to sound sarcastic here, but as
> far as I know mankind has not yet invented HG Wells
> time machine. Do you mean to tell me that Khomeini and
> Pat Robertson, by placing themselves in opposition to
> liberal modernist discourse, are actually a
> reincarnation of a pre 16th century Feudal mentality?
> I respectfully disagree.  I believe such characters to
> be quite at home here in our period.  The only stunt
> they have to perform is learn a few techniques from
> other, more "progressive" characters who have accepted
> the mantle of state power.  Khomeini indeed did not
> act unlike most other figures who have acquired state
> power, and your description of the Irtanian revolution
> sounds not unlike any other modern revolution: they
> all after coming into power opressed the workers,
> forced their women into submission, and produced
> surplus for the ruling classes.  Some were, of course,
> more efficient in one or the other fields of
> oppression, but they were all playing to the same
> tune. On the ordered, hierarchical society you use
> Iran as example, my comments are the same.  Khomeini
> learned this from watching too many Star Trek films
> and adopted his form of Islam to function well with
> the modern apparatus of social control we call the
> modern state.  You can call this precapitalist if you
> want but a star trek disciplinary system was not
> available to the Abbasid caliphate or the Mamlukes.
> No, they had to depend on that awkward, inefficient
> tributory system with all of its complications.
>
> Khaldoun Samman
>
>
>
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