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Re: CMP by Andre Gunder Frank 28 March 2002 18:46 UTC |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from ANDRE GUNDER FRANK Senior Fellow Residence World History Center One Longfellow Place Northeastern University Apt. 3411 270 Holmes Hall Boston, MA 02114 USA Boston, MA 02115 USA Tel: 617-948 2315 Tel: 617 - 373 4060 Fax: 617-948 2316 Web-page:csf.colorado.edu/agfrank/ e-mail:franka@fiu.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NOTE TO H-WORLDers: this comes from a discussion string on another net,the World Systems Net, whihc also has its own net archive. I wish to cross-post it to H-World because it is not only equally relevant here, but because part of the SAME argument about differnet/common & which is on first, who is on second just appeared here as well. Below is my response to the last WSN intervention, part of which I also quote AGF Like Carl , I dont wanna go on and on about the Capitalist Mode of Produc tion ... but this time I gotta agree with him when he says In a nutshell, I reject both the assertion that Capitalism or the CMP never existed (Frank) and the assertion that capitalism, as merely another manifestation of greed, always existed (Alexander). Of course, to say that it always existed is effectively the SAME as saying that it never existed - as something different. And if CMP has alwats exited, it is not different from others, and then there is no point in either trying to distinguish as nor to name it something different. Carl, like everybody since Marx - and lately especially the Reaganite/thacherite RIGHT=wrong - insist that there IS a DIFFERENCE and an important one, which the latter uphold and Carl and us combat. I say, and the historical as well as contemporary evidence suppoerts me, thaT these alleged differences are non-existent or spurious. Therefore, I say there has been NO ''capitalism'' as such. I do not say that there has awlays or for 5,000 years been capitalism, since that would be a non-sense statement that I do NOT make and I dont know that Alexander does either. Additionally, one step further, you all - and about this has been my longstanding on and on discussion with my friend Samir Amin - focus on DIFFERENCES, which you regard as more important, and I focus on similarities and even more important COMMONALITIES, which ,i regard as more important [to say that both are important is a cop out]. Moreover, I maintain that in order to distinguish and understand differnces, it is imperative first to see the similarities/commonalities - within which only it then can make sense to look for differences. The entire Marxist, but equaLLY SO ''LIBERAL'' Western social science tradition and historiography since the mid 19th century has fallen into/made for itself/ this trap of posing an alleged duality between ''us'' and ''them'' - with a dozen baptisms of modern/traditional, cap/non-pre-post- cap, rational/ non-ir-rational, gessellschaft/gemeinschaft, urban/folk, contract...organic.., lately well summarized as ''the West vs the Rest'' by Clash-of-Civilizations Huntington [there we go again, its a RIGHTwing thing]. Its ALL what Edward Said denounced as Orientalism, the studied [but without study!] invention of a fictcious Orient, not for its sake but to separate US/the West out from the rest - when in reality we are much more the same than different. Since Sept 11 actually, its been re-defined as CIVILIZATION - without an s - vs. presumably barbary. that is what the Argentinina Sarmiento called them in the 19th century, when he was on the ''civilized'' top dog European exploitative free trade side. I do NOT want to put Carl and my many ''capitalism is it'friends into this same bag, but - since comonalities are more important and prior to differecnes - they need to watch their own step if they wish to avoid themselves falling into that bag, where they are received with open arms by the RIGHT who glories in it, and who cheerfully bombs all civilizational law and institutions out of existence in the name of ''saving'' them [echo of destroying Vietnam to save]. Apologies for having gone on and on after all, to delve into the not only similarities but also the COMONALITIES of the Marxist and anti-Marxist [ they dont know how Marxist they themselves are!] anti- or pro- capitalist roaders, all of whom are travelling on the SAME road and mostly NOT even in as opposite directions as they would like or claim to. respectfully submitted gunder frank
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