Re: apologies

Relax, Alan!

I put "[class-eliminating]" in brackets in your quotation to indicate what
"it" referred to in your argument. I wasn't wrong, was I? That was your
point, wasn't it? I think your remarks sustains my argument.

Also please don't misconstrue my arguments. I am not defending capitalism,
the annihilation of Native Americans, the Nazi repression of the Warsaw
uprising, or the American war in Vietnam (which I have already called
"irrational"). 

What I am saying is that a) you cannot abolish social classes, b) every
mass society has at least two social classes, and c) any attempt to
eliminate social classes will i) require the implementation of a policy of
genocide, and ii) fail. This is a concise rendition of my argument. I know
you don't like it. But you cannot refute it by logical argument or
empirical evidence. However, you are welcome to try.

//CJR

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Alan Spector wrote:

> CJR!: You quoted me (Alan Spector) this way:
> 
> ...
> > Once
> > someone accepts the validity of capitalism's basic premises, it becomes
> > childish for that person to complain that the capitalist system isn't
> > "playing fair" and then to beg these genocidal [class-eliminating] 
> > murderers to please "play nice." 
> 
> and then added this commentary of your own:
> 
> 
> > -- Then you admit that any attempt to create a classless society (despite,
> > in my view, the ultimate failure of any such attempt) requires the
> > implementation of a genocidal policy to accomplish it?
> > 
> > //CJR
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------
> My comment (in plain, non-bold or italic type):
> ------------------------
> 
> 
> What in the world are you talking about? Do I believe that violence is
> necessary in self-defense? Of course, and so do you. Who in the world
> equates "violence" with "genocide?"  Nobody with any understanding of
> history!  I guess the Native American Indians attempted to commit
> genocide against the U.S.military, and the Vietnamese committed
> genocide against the U.S. military, and the Jews who rose up during
> the Warsaw ghetto uprising against the Nazis were trying to commit
> genocide against the poor Nazis, by your logic.
> 
> How clever, and quite dishonest, of you to add two words "[class
> eliminating]"  when my original quote was:
> 
> "There are plenty of other genocides created by capitalism acting in a
> rational way to defend its irrational class society. It is capitalism,
> and class society itself, which are irrational in the sense that they
> harm the overwhelming majority of people in the world. Once someone
> accepts the validity of capitalism's basic premises, it becomes
> childish for that person to complain that the capitalist system isn't
> "playing fair" and then to beg these genocidal murderers to please
> "play nice."
> 
> ------------------ To CJReid: You are free to disagree with my
> interpretation and deny that capitalism has committed genocidal
> murders, if you choose. But changing my words---
> 
> (oh, I know, you put them in brackets to demonstrate that they are
> added, but that point might not be clear to many who read your twisted
> version of my comment because words added with [ ] brackets imply that
> the additions are consistent with the original meaning, not reversing
> the meaning! ),
> 
> ---- so twisting my meaning and then responding to your own words as
> if you were responding to my words is the crudest form of dishonesty.
> So I'm finished dealing with you.
> 
> And apologies to the WSN list for any encouragement I might have given
> to this "Charles J. Reid" and any time you might have wasted because
> of my foolish attempts to debate with such a character.
> 
> Alan Spector
> 
> ========================================================
>