RE: The New Panglossianism and Baby's bathwater

The capitalists take money from the workers because the workers give it to 
them. This happens for a very large number of reasons: perception of power, 
confidence or lack therof, knowledge of the system or lack thereof, and a 
few million or so other little details. Every man does what he chooses. If 
you want to change what he does, you must give him the knowledge that he 
can 
benefit by doing so. In order to do that, you must produce a stable system 
of economy that is well organized and nearly universally accepted. Ideally, 
I think communism is the government style of choice. But ideally, every man 
has equal responsibility for the whole, and that requires an ethical system 
far beyond what we have today. Any endeavor that requires support by "the 
people" must appeal to their individual selfishness, for although some may 
learn to "rise above it" or understand that it is in their best interest to 
work in a large group, most do not have goals on a global level and thus do 
not wish to put energy into helping people they do not know. Their lives 
are 
devoted to themselves and maybe to their family and friends. Whatever 
government can best appeal to, or manipulate as the case may be, this kind 
of person will survive.
As our understanding of economics and ethics improves, the information will 
spread to the workers, who when they know it is benificial will demand a 
change to a new form of economy or whatever is on the table. The job for 
you 
guys is to make it clear EXACTLY why it works. But you don't know. The 
inner 
workings of economy are laregly mysterious still, as is ethics. Governing 
is 
experimenting. As long as this is so, the fear of the unknown will remain 
the primary tool of those in power.
So all you promoters of this or that idealism or economy, keep in mind that 
this fear must be dealt with to make your change, and this can only be done 
by clearly stating the necessity for it and PROVING to everyone that it 
will 
do what you predict that it will.



Matthew Horning



>From: "Elson" <facbolese@usao.edu>
>Reply-To: facbolese@usao.edu
>To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
>Subject: RE: The New Panglossianism and Baby's bathwater
>Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:30:22 -0600
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> > Dear WSNers: Elson Boles wrote, in defense of Alan Spector, and 
>apparently
> > contrary to my post that:
> > ...snip...
> > On workers' wages approaching
> > owners', I'm not sure
> > I would regard that as a just outcome given that the owners must
> > be compensated
> > for the risks they take and for their initial and on-going
> > investment. (I say
> > this as a person who has been on strike within the last two
> > years)Besides, who
> > wants to go around and tell the local Coffee Shop owner he must pay his
> > coffee-jocks roughly equal to what he or she makes?
>...snip..
> >Let's not throw out the baby [the market] with the bathwater [the
>unfettered market?]
> >
> > Randy Groves
>
>Capitalists and workers do not earn what they deserve and don't deserve 
>what
>they earn.   For instance, a Guatemalan coffee bean picker must work about 
>5
>days and pick about 500 pounds of coffee to earn enough income to purchase
>one pound of Starbucks coffee at US prices.   Of course, the worker's 
>income
>is spent in an region where prices are not as high on coffee, but it is
>similar on the other goods that Guatemalans purchase, such as electronics,
>autos, etc.  One could go on all day about these inequalities;  Bill Gates'
>earns about as much as the lower 100 million people in the US earn 
>COMBINED.
>Meanwhile the number of children in the US living in poverty increased from
>3.5 to 6.1 million between 1974 and 1996, and so on.
>
>We don't need capitalists; we need to change the relations of the
>political-economy.   Economic decision making should be democratic, such as
>through cooperatives, not dictatorial.   And the wealth of factories, land,
>etc. should not be held by a tiny minority of the population, but the 
>entire
>population, since after all, it is this population which did most of the
>work in creating this wealth.  (The facts for the US are about the same for
>the entire world-economy: 20% of the pop own 80% of wealth.  And it gets
>more concentrated as one moves up.  Is this is not all quite old news?)
>
>Capitalists' wealth and "their" associated risks have been accumulated on
>the backs of the masses.  Indeed who frequently bails out capitalists?  Who
>suffers when factories are closed down to protect profit rates?   I'm
>reminded of a cartoon of a conversation between a bystander and a
>capitalist:
>
>Bystander: What did you tell those workers?
>Cap: I told them to work faster.
>By:  How much do you pay them?
>Cap: 50$ a day.
>By: Where'd you get the cash to pay them?
>Cap: I sold products.
>By: Who made the products?
>Cap: They did.
>By: How many do they make?
>Cap. About $100 a day per worker.
>By: Then actually, they're paying you 50$ a day.
>Cap:  Well, I own the machines.
>By: How did you get the machines?
>Cap.  From the profits of products I sold.
>By: And who made those products, and who made the machinery?
>Cap: Shut up, they might hear you!
>
>But of course, most aren't listening because they've been fed a load of 
>crap
>that capitalists have "risks" and deserve what they earn!  Poppycock!
>Those who do most of the hard work get paid the least in part because of 
>the
>functioning of the market: competition among less-skilled workers, not to
>mention political forces,  drives down their wages.   It's plain stupid and
>immoral to let the capitalist market (the relations among commodities)
>dictate our lives.
>
>

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