Re: Gunder Frank's Comments, Libraries and source materials

        I am reminded of that classic old analysis of warfare by Quincy
Wright, A STUDY OF WAR.  One of its many "findings"--based on quantitative
data--was the "mean average warlikeness" of the several "races" of
humankind.  As I recall, the most warlike "race" was the "white," followed
by the "black," the "brown," the "yellow," and the "red," in that order.
No wonder the cavalry prevailed over the Indians!

        Of course the study was hopelessly flawed because so many of the
historical documents relevant to such a project (not to mention the
relevant oral traditions) had long since disappeared.  Also many of the
surviving records were in languages that the predominantly Western social
scientists consulted for the study could not read.  Also not all the
cultures under investigation were literate throughout their history.

        Warren

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Malcolm Pratt wrote:

> Andre Gunder Frank comments on B. Y's  request is an interesting starting
> point for discussion.  He is of course right that the premise of the
> question should be challenged.  Should it be "why do so many
> commentators/theorists believe that capitalism was formed in the 16th
> century?" or something similar, but it also raises questions about source
> materials, the role of libraries.
>
> The first question obviously relates to source material.  Leo the African
> whose family had been expelled from Grananda after the final phase of the
> Reconqusita, suggest in his work on the geography and history of Africa,
> that one of the reasons that the peoples of Africa had little history was
> the systematic distruction of their books by conquerers.  His belief may
> have been influenced by historical record of the Roman destruction of the
> Library of Alexandria or by the bonfire of Islamic texts in the city square
> of Granada which had followed the city's surrender.  Whatever the case, it
> is interesting point to discuss whether as part of warfare and colonialism
> it has been a comon practice to try to destroy books and textural elements
> or other societies.
>
> The second element is whether in fact, alongside all the books and records
> which disucss european exceptionalism etc, there are other works, in
> particular, archival records which point in opposite directions.  How many
> archives outside Europe are consulted, how many texts written in
> non-european laguages remain untranslated and why.    On this list we have
> been discussing languages and how many scholars are learning non-european
> languages, but what is often missed is that knowledge of ancient varients of
> say Islamic texts or even Latin, is even rarer.   Perhaps one of the roles
> that we should be considering is a wider search for sources and
> collaboration in the translation of historical texts, the incorporation of
> specialist linguists and the translation modern non-european works too.
> This of course, calls for a wider role for academics, Libraries and
> Librarians like myself.
>
> A bit of a general ramble there, but I thought it may be an interesting
> point of discussion.
>
>
> malcolm
>
>
>
> There are whole world libaries full of material on this  - and ALL of
> them/it are totally MISleading down the garden path into a cul de sac.
> Best thing to do is to abandon your question as one of the type
> ''when did you stop [or in your case start] beating your wife/husband?''
> the ANSWEr is  ''I AM NOT MARRIED''
>
> go look at the evidence - chinese:  seek trutth from facts - and figure
> out what the right - not your WRONG! - question/s is/are
> gunder frank
>
> On
> Wed, 30 Jan 2002, B. Y. wrote:
>
> >Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:21:32 +0200
> >From: B. Y. <yeldiren0@hotmail.com>
> >To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu
> >Subject: Help Request
> >
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >I am working on a short paper approximately thirty pages about "Formation
> >of
> Capitalism during 16.cc".  Main subject is represent that this century was
> an
> age of transition.
> >
> >Outline is as shown below:
> >
> >* 16.cc is an age of transition from Ancient Regime to Capitalism
> >  - What is system theory?
> >  - What is the transformation of a world system
> >  - Examples of this transition from Europe in 16.cc
> >
> >* How did this transition happen in Britain?
> >  - Economically
> >  - Religious strucutes and divisions in Christianity (Reflection of social
> chages on them)
> >  - Govermental Structure
> >
> >* Effects of this transition on humans culture/ideology
>
>
> Malcolm Pratt
> Flat 4, 37 Stratford Road, London, W8 6RA
> 0171 937 2489
>
>
>
>
>
>
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