[Fwd: Re: Carl Nordlund and AG Frank right]

Hello, WSN, can anyone help me deleting this message from the archive?  Each
time I tried, it simply creates more trash in the 'Trash' file.
Thanks .
K.S.

-------- Original Message --------

Subject:	Re: Carl Nordlund and AG Frank right
Date:	Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:09:01 -0700 (PDT)
From:	Luke Rondinaro <larondin@yahoo.com>
To:	wsn@csf.colorado.edu

I'm inclined to agree with Clint Ballinger on his post ... but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.  My question to the others ... why devote so much time and so many postings to the ideological dimension of this issue?  I know (and we all know) current events are important and that what just happened last Tuesday was monumental and earth shaking.  We probably all know or have friends/relatives who knew someone caught in the midst of the tragegy.  It's the sort of event that truly hits home, and will probably have a large historical impact.  (What that impact will be I cannot honestly tell you; can any of us say for a certainty that we know? ...)

In any case to get back to my original question ... Why from a world systems perspective, is it so important to frame this issue in ideological terms?  What has this to do specifically with the methodological questions of WST, its basic theory, or content?  (Or has a "big event" merely pre-empted the usual mission and discussions of WSN?)  I don't want to sound facetious or sardonic.  This is an honest question. 

Did "analysis" merely get pre-empted by ideology and politics (at least for the time being) -> or, from your own perspectives on this issue and other matters in history and current events, does ideology (in fact) figure prominently in the framing of world systems analysis?  Think about this for a moment.  I have a fairly good idea where you all would stand on Weber's fact/value dichotomy.  You'd probably all place yourselves in the "is" camp rather than the "ought" camp.  Yet, why on this issue & other historical issues, do you seem to place an emphasis on ideology which is truly a subset of "ought."

If I'm missing something here in your analysis, then tell me.  I really do want to understand where you're coming from on these issues.  I look forward to reading your responses.

Luke Rondinaro 

 

I just want to express my support for what Carl
Nordlund and AG Frank wrote.
Clint Ballinger
--- Andre Gunder Frank wrote:
> i've been thinking [not for the fist time] of doing
> the same, since i
> tire of having routinely to press 'd' virtually
> sight unseen. but if I
> were to see more, it would be even worse. I'm not
> for censorship, but I
> have proposed on previous similar occasions that the
> parties concerned
> set up their own 'system' - as my family and I have
> for our private
> concerns and discussions.
> respectfully submitted
> gunder frank
>
> p.s. maybe Arno Tausch should set up a list-serve to
> which those of can
> subscribe who want his -virtually the only -
> valuable inputs on wsn,
> in which case those who are taking it over for their
> own purposes can
> keep it.
> agf
>
> On
> Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Carl Nordlund wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 01:59:56 +0200
> > From: Carl Nordlund
> > To: Seyed Javad ,
> wsn@csf.colorado.edu
> > Subject: Re: Bush caused US devastation
> >
> > Ok, I am getting out of this list. My stomach
> can't stand any more ideologic, non-scientific and
> completely pre-analytical fundamentalism where all
> happenings are stuffed into an Archive X-style
> conspiracy framework.
> >
> > If there still are anyone out there working with
> world system analysis and methodological questions
> regarding this, I am more than happy to initiate
> (and also host) such a mailing list.
> >
> > Carl
> > - - -
> > MA, PhD student
> > Human Ecology Division, Lund University
> > www.humecol.lu.se
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Seyed Javad
> > To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:02 PM
> > Subject: Fwd: Bush caused US devastation
> >
> >
> >
> > Just wanna pass this and see what you guys think
> about this:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > seyedjavad
> > From: "Karl Carlile"
> > Reply-To: "Karl Carlile"
> > To:
> > Subject: Bush caused US devastation
> > Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:26:23 +0100
> > It is clear that there is a strong link between
> the kami kazi acts in the US and
> > the Middle East. It is clear that the
> Palestianians have been treated like pigs
> > by US imperialism and are now acting like pigs.
> The source of the attack on the
> > US buildings is the Bush administration. Bush
> armed and supported Israel and
> > gave the green light to Israel in relation to
> the Palestinian question --the
> > freedom to provoke, randomly attack and brutally
> oppress the Palestinian people.
> > The result is the destruction by Arabs of the
> Word Trade Centre premises and
> > severe damage to the Pentagon. This, in a sense,
> is an expression of the failure
> > and collapse of Bush foreign policy. It
> constitutes a defeat of their foreign
> > policy.
> > Now the Washington administration is hoping to
> exploit the events in such a way
> > as to have a pretext for more aggressive
> imperialist policies --such as further
> > occupations of countries that are of strategic
> significance.
> > The other possibility is that it was known by
> the CIA that the attacks were to
> > take place. The attacks were deliberately
> allowed to happen because the
> > devatation, it was thought, would so
> dramatically change the situation as to
> > provide a prectext for a more aggressive foreign
> policy involving, as I have
> > said, occupation of certain countries of
> strategic importance for one reason or
> > another. Indeed the CIA may have had plants in
> these organisations that
> > insituted these plans. They may have provided
> much of the resources necessary to
> > undertake the operation. Afterall it is
> extraordinary how such a devastating
> > operation was undetected. How was were hijaced
> planes able to get into this
> > airspace without raising any alarm.
> > Strange too the way the media almost right
> across the board suggested Bin Laden
> > was behind the operation. Surely if they have
> this kind of information they must
> > also then been able to preempt it.
> > Big powers are known to inflict damage or
> facilitate the infliction of damage on
> > their own population to get a pretext to take
> certain actions against an enemy
> > country.
> > Either way the Bush administration is the source
> of the problem.
> > Regards
> > Karl Carlile
> > Regards
> > Karl Carlile
> > Be free to join our communism mailing list
> > at http://homepage.eircom.net/~kampf/
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ANDRE GUNDER FRANK
> Department of History Home
> University of Nebraska Lincoln [UNL] 4440
> North 7th Street
> 612 Oldfather Apt. 107
> P.O. Box 880327 Lincoln, NE 68521 USA
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0327 Tel: 1-402-742 7931
> Tel: 1-402-472 3251=direct 2414=Dpt Fax:
> 1-402-742 7932
> Fax: 1-402-472 8839
> E-Mail: franka@fiu.edu Web Page:
> csf.colorado.edu/agfrank/
>
>
>
>


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