Discussion of ReOrient at AHA

Discussion of ReOrient, AHA, Washington, DC, 9 Jan. 1999

KPM notes: Pls. take the following as a rough draft.  Much abbreviation
and occasional uncertainty  occur in my account; I  won't bother you by
constantly saying (sic.) or (I think). I assume general familiarity with
general world-system thesis of  Gundar Frank.  

				***

AG Frank appeared with a panel of discussants  (a "Wisconsin mafia"?): 

	Martin Lewis, a geographer; co-author of "Myth of Continents:
Critique of Mega-Geography," and other work on South America;
	John Richards, a South Asia historian; author of "The Mobile
Empire," on India, and "The Unending Frontier: Early Modern Environmental
History" (forthcoming);
	David Ringrose, European historian, especially Spain--forthcoming
book on "Expansion and Global Interaction from 1400."
	[[Was the moderator one of these -- or another person again?]] 

AG Frank presented his main postulates:

	- the existence of a world system - with cyclical patterns and
hegemonic 		shifts/shifts in the location of the core -
going back not 500 but some 5000 	years, a system of which Europe
was NOT the core until after 1800

	- the analytic principle of holism: interpretation of all parts
(including 		Europe) in terms of the larger system

	- rejection of theoretical alternatives (e.g. Landes et al. on
unique 		endogenous attributes that account for European 
success; Marx,  Weber, 	and Wallerstein on existence/significance
of "capitalism" and other 		distinctive modes of economic
organization, and on the gradual 		emergence of capitalism
/European supremacy/world-economy 		[only] from 15th
century on)

				***
	
M. LEWIS:
	In broad agreement with Frank, esp. that: Amsterdam NOT the core
in the 17th c.; that Europe evolved in a pre-existing global context; and
that the precious metals of the New World allowed Europe to buy its way
into the East.

	Other factors, howevcr, other rather special advantages, were
also key to the European ascent:
	- Military lead, esp. military shipping, naval supremacy (notes
early Eur. control of the Hormuz Straits). Military on lead on land as
well by the end of the 17th c. (Ottomans lag behind).  Europeans enjoy
easy victory at the battle of  Plassy, Bengal, 17.... 
	- Technological lead, e.g. water & wind mills, tools, and machine
tooling, relative to India and Far East. Suggests important tole of
mathematics, science, and scientific attitudes and applications here 
(relative to e.g. China).
	-Lead in cartography and navigation (Ottomans, Mediterranean Jews
(?) lead in mapmaking to 1500s; then Europe moves ahead And European maps
are global, vs. more regional  focus of Asian maps).

	More generally, while Frank denies a 16th c. watershed and
special European global role, Lewis argues early appearance of special
European dynamic trend , and especially the Euopean creation of a single
global system itself. Processes internal to Europe should (thus) be
considered, too.
	
			***

J. RICHARDS
	Like Lewis, supports Frank's central theses, including:

	-climate of innovation and growth in early modern period,
			affecting Eurasia as a whole; adds here a stress
on "processes of 		social learning," esp. in re state &
commercial structures.

	- role of bullion, linking Americas to Japan; would stress here
the   
	immense stimulus of money supply on exchange, production,
			state capacities and revenues (notes E. India Co.
& Mogul 			Empire...). Adds that India a second and
independent "sink hole" 		for bullion, distinct from China
(more emphasized  by Frank).

	Like Lewis, again, Richards points to (other) specific European
advantages that show up pre-1800:

	- the European maritime advantage, indeed, its "global predatory
role," and 	the unprecedented scale and scope of European
extraction of resources, 	around the world (he offered a long list
of commodities, including 	whales and slaves...). 

	- organizational advantages, especially the chartered companies
which, with 	state support, drive trade and resource extraction on
an immense scale (e.g. 	Dutch E. Indian Co.) and  with a long-term
strategic view. NO analogies for 	these in Asia.

	- Exceptionally high investment in military organization,
supplies, shipping, 	resulting in a worldwide European military
lead by 1700.

	- A new predatory world view, adopted by both monarchs and
merchants, 	appropriate to a truly global maritime system with
unparalleled centrality 		and information flows. Compare,
for instance,  the global reach and vision of 	Akbar, the Mogul
emperor, and e.g. Phillip II of Spain. (Also) notes Mogul 	neglect
of  naval strength; army and commercial organization also rather
		static--while Europeans building fortified city states
along the Indian coast.	
  
				***

D. RINGROSE

	Again, agreement with Frank's general outline of the world
system, and with the problems of the "Eurocentric epistemological cul de
sac." Adds some interesting remarks on (national) boundaries, another
European conceit; compares Ottoman (imperial) organization, with its
layers of jurisdiction, central control gradually fading out away from
the core....

	However -- while Frank, quite rightly, highlightsconnections,
especially  commercial -- he should look more at other sorts of links
integrating the global system:

	- the diffusion of technology, along with trade
	- non-economic flows, esp. religion (esp. Islam) and language
	- nomadic migrations
	- the state (including "circulating nomadic military elites,"  
mobile 	warrior communities,  from very early on
	- Really "exogenous factors," esp. environmental change, disease
(NB: 	global cooling, AD 100-800 & 1200 on: expansion of deserts;
increased 	migratory movements)
	- cities: functional  nodes (religious, commercial, etc.) with
systemic external 	connections and multiplier effects (NB: role of
maritime cities and links)
	- kinship networks, including farflung merchant families
		(thus: distinctive political ramifications of
state-centered Madrid 		and its nobility, vs. bourgeois,
trade-centered Barcelona....)

	Ringrose also noted, in passing (and without quite saying so),
the issue of causality or motor-force. Frank describes how the world
system operated, he said, but does not quite say what made it tick.
Universal market mechanisms and the profit motive? Other sorts of agency
(e.g. those network of kin...or states)?

				***

[[Juno does not like very long documents (neither do I). I will stop here
now, and go on to Gundar Frank's response and other matters next time.]]
					Kay Moseley

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