Another clarification of issues on the interesting exchange between Mike =
Shupp and Nikolai Rosov
1.)Excellent discussion of papal bulls by Nicolai Rosov ! The papel =
bulls of the 1470's indeed hinged on the division of the Atlantic =
islands (the Canary Islands and the Azores) between Castille and =
Portugal. In this respect, as in so many others, the Atlantic Islands =
were the breeding ground or the nursery of the Atlantic world.=20
2.)The relation between overseas' expansion and the reformation is also =
the topic of a parallel discussion on the H-world list, so this is a hot =
issue. I basically think those who don't see a relationship between the =
reformation and overseas' expansion and those who do are both right.=20
On the one hand it is hard to gather what interest the princes of Saxony =
or Prussia, the nobles of Transsylvania or Bohemia, or the government of =
Geneva should have had in contesting the Spanish and Portuguese dominium =
maris. And, actually, German merchants such as the Welzers or the =
Fuggers were given ample concessions in Spain's overseas' dominions. =
Interest in overseas' ventures would thus have been a good reason for =
sticking to Spain and catholicism, as can be observed in Holland in the =
1580's where Amsterdam remained catholic while the rest of Holland had =
turned Protestant partly to preserve its trading links with Iberia.
On the other hand, however, overseas' interest did play a definite part =
in the reformation in Holland (and maybe in Schotland and Denmark as =
well) and in the labyrinthine internal religious politics of the Dutch =
Republic. Thus, the province of Zeeland which had great interests in its =
pirates preying on Spanish ships in the Atlantic staunchly opposed the =
politics of reconciliation with Spain of `Raadpensionaris' Johan van =
Oldenbarnevelt. Therefore, in the very complicated quarel which erupted =
in 1605 between the `Arminian' and `Gomarian' branch of the Dutch =
reformed church, Zeeland staunchly supported `stadhouder' Maurits who =
supported the Arminians against Van Oldenbarneveld and towns like =
Amsterdam who supported the Gomarians. The quarrel finally led to =
Oldenbarneveld's execution. I could make the same argument for the =
situation after the treaty of Utrecht but enough internal Dutch politics =
here. The argument basically depends upon what country one is =
considering when (the Baltic interests may have played a role in the =
Swedish reformation too, for example.)
Anyhow, the situation is actually even more complicated than that. =
Hostility to Spain might lead to some states supporting the reformation. =
Thus, the great supporter of the reformation in eastern Europe was the =
very Muslim Ottoman empire: the Dutch protestant pirates (Watergeuzen) =
hoisted the Ottoman half-moon ! While, again, some other states were =
both very catholic and anti-Spanish: thus Venice which on the one hand =
harshly persecuted its own protestants, on the other harboured all =
protestants persecuted by the Spaniards. One could be catholic and yet =
be anti-Spanish, as the example of France under Henry IV shows, or =
vice-versa as protestant Hamburg -a Spanish ally- shows. But this stands =
to reason of course: we know more than sufficient examples of such =
`marriages of convenience' from our own period: e.g. the very Christian =
and western US and the anti-western Mujahedeen, the former USSR and the =
anti-communist Bath regimes, Franz Joseph Straus propping up the =
Honecker and Ceaucescu regime etc. etc. etc.
3.)And the situation regarding the Dutch/English recognition of the =
division of the world by papal bull is also very complicated. Yes- the =
Dutch and the English were aware of this bulls and greatly bothered with =
them for sixteenth century societies were very legally minded - Grotius' =
De Mare Liberum might not have been written without them - right ? =
However, in a very important article written sometime ago, L.Blusse and =
G.D.Winius actually made the argument that the bulls were interpreted by =
the Dutch in a very different way than one might expect. When the Dutch =
were entering Asia they were greatly amazed being opposed with arms by =
the Portuguese, since they were entering the Portuguese sphere of =
influence. They were at war with Spain and not with Portugal and should =
thus be permitted peaceful trade within the Portuguese sphere under =
Portuguese protection against pirates.
Hope these long historical exposees don't put off those readers out =
there who are more interested in contemporary politics - so I better not =
enter into the `Axial Age' here which is a long, long time ago indeed - =
I am intending to come to Sydney next year, Richard, hoping to discuss =
it with you then !=20
Rene Barendse
IIAS- Leiden
rene.barendse@tip.nl