On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Nikolai S. Rozov wrote:
> Some factual notes on Mike Shupp's comment:
> This Bull 1493 was really an ad hoc response to Columbus (but before
de Gama 1497-9 and Magellan 1520-26). It was most famous and GLOBAL document
> but not first an a rather long tradition. Popes Niccolo V and Kalikst III
> (sorry for misspelling) confirmed rights of Portugal on all non-
> Christian lands discovered to South and East from the cape Bochador 'up to
> Indians' (1452-56).
That was my point. The 1493 Papal Bull wasn't something extraordinary in
itself.
On the hand, you're making the point that it was one of a series which
showed that Europeans felt they could divide the earth as they chose,
and that was in itself extraordinary.
Your point is more significant than mine.
> English expedition to North America of John Cabbot 1497-8 was prepared
> by Henry VII in great conspiracy from Portugal and Spain.
> Companions of Magellan knew very well of Portugal legal
> monopoly in Indian ocean and tried to escape Portugeuse ships but failed,
> 'Trinidad' and all its people were arrested and almost all died in jail.
> English expansion had in beginning pirates like Francis Drake just
because > foreign activities in Southern seas were banned.
> Finally, what was the reason of European monarchs to support Reformation?
> Taking into account that legitimization by ancient Roman Church was of primary
> value for each of them, we must assume that only a very serious political-
> economic reason could urge monarchs to change their own and state religion
> (in Netherlands, England, German states). The hypotethesis that namely
> freedom for further colonization, the striving to escape Pope's ban seems to
> be rather plausible as explanation of this type of decision.
> Mike:
> > There's precious little evidence other European states took
> > the division very seriously.
I'll stick to this. Obviously the English, say, knew that the Spanish and
Portuguese took their claims seriously and would defend them, but did the
Dutch and English scrupuously respect those claims? Of course not. They
sent out pirates and made every possible attempt to supplant the Iberians,
As for changing the state religion, the urge to colonize strikes me as
inadequate. It would make far more sense for a monarch bent on
colonization to defy the Pope, plant his colonies, and see what the
reaction was. Excommunicated monarchs are a staple of European history,
and monarchs who get their own way at the cost of small penace another.
If colonization had been the only factor in leaving the Catholic
Church, after all, there would have been far more German colonies than
were ever established-- and this might have been a much happier century,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ms44278@csun1.csun.edu
Mike Shupp
California State University, Northridge
Graduate Student, Dept. of Anthropology
http://www.csun.edu/~ms44278/index.htm