Re: WEB INTELLIGENCE # 2 - jULY 23, 2003 (fwd)

dear friends,

I feel a little compelled to cry "whoa there" as we become a bit tense
about our commentaries on the disgusting news we must deal with
as regards the condition of our world.

I also value seeing information from websites I'd never dream of
advocating except as examples of how far the nuts can fall away
from their trees. And of course they do post real news as it occurs
to them their authority figure may justify their views.

I value all the intelligence coming through this list and wouldn't want
this to stop. You know how difficult it is to derive the meaning, the
intent - of sarcasm, innuendo and irony regarding another's post.
I can see in our microcosm the same seeds of alienation that plague
the world in endless conflict.

Please let these misunderstandings pass.

My other comment would be that in posting any excerpts PLEASE
post the web link if you can possibly find it. This helps to flesh out
the context of an important point you wish to communicate.

I do look forward to the day when all the elements of world systems
are integrated into a world view focused on realistic, compelling
and convincing measures we may advocate to enhance the survival
of our children and the world they share.

Actually I'd be sooo happy to hear how we were going to make it
through the next ten years.

Tim Jones



At 8:26 PM -0400 07/22/2003, Andre Gunder Frank wrote:
> I also seldom if evsr agree with Luis Project, and have agreed with
> everything i have read of Michel Chossudovsky since both of us wote
> similar denunciations of the 1973 coup in Chile and its economic
> consequences. But I dont see the relevance of your or my agreement with X
> or Y, nor the political genealogy of some publication, for the use of
> material found therein. As Michel already told you, he cross-checks infos,
> and so do I. And if something checks out, then we use it. I see NO reason
> whatsoever not to re-print an article by x in mag y, just because you - or
> even i - dont like that mag or its editor 20 years ago, or even today.
> If he says that 2 plus 2 makes 4, I should believe it must be 3 or 5?
> You remind me of the cold war saying that if a communist says that milk is
> good for babies, it must be bad for them.
>
> In additio to that, if you will note
>
>
> i made a modest effort to copy some WEB INTELLIGENCE and string it
> together and send it out to people who otherwise might not have access to
> it. I never said that I subscribe to the source or the writer.  If Bush
> says something and it is reported in the NYT, we should pay no attention?
> Your psoition leads to the absurd. If these guys i quoted say and [are in
> a position to] DO something and it emerges from whatever source, I should
> pay no attention?  As it happens, I am pesonally and politically AGAINST
> virtually every word that i posted, except the occasional into or warning
> of whoever first picked up what was said and thereby did us the service of
> letting us know. I am trying to let other people know.
>
> My pesonal recommendation to you, especially if you want to follow your
> own advice, is to simply press D if you see something with my name on it -
> for two reasons: 1. it come from me, and 2. you are exceptionally well
> informed anyway and dont need my stuff.
>
> cheers
> gunder frank
> ps since this is my second answer to you, I dont propose to send any
> aditional ones. maybe i will use D too as i have had to do with Luis
> Project even though sometimes he ALSO sends out something of value!
>
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Michael Pugliese wrote:
>
> >  Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:30:11 -0700
> >  From: Michael Pugliese <debsian@pacbell.net>
> >  To: Andre Gunder Frank <franka@fiu.edu>, Michael Albert <sysop@zmag.org>,
> >       Jay Moore <pieinsky@igc.org>, wsn@csf.colorado.edu,
> >       Martha Gimenez <gimenez@csf.colorado.edu>,
> >       Michael Perelman <michael@ecst.csuchico.edu>,
> >       Michel Chossudovsky <chossudovsky@videotron.ca>,
> >       D Shniad <shniad@sfu.ca>,
> >       Peter G Spengler <peter.g.spengler@t-online.de>,
> >       tom hall <thall@depauw.edu>, Michael Ratner <mratner@igc.org>,
> >       Mark Ritchie <mritchie@iatp.org>
> >  Subject: Re: WEB INTELLIGENCE # 2 - jULY 23, 2003 (fwd)
> >
> >  On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:18:00 -0400 (EDT), Andre Gunder Frank
> >  <franka@fiu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >  > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >  > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:51 -0400 (EDT)
> >  > From: Andre Gunder Frank <franka@fiu.edu>
> >  > To: franka@fiu.edu
> >  > Subject: WEB INTELLIGENCE # 2 - jULY 23, 2003
> >  >
> >  > THEME:
> >  >
> >  > Former CIA Director James Woolsey, in a recent speech in
> >  > Los Angeles, said: "The Iraq campaign is really just the start of the
> >  > Third World War and one that may well last for decades."
> >  >
> >  > 
> > http://www.americanfreepress.net/06_29_03/Global_War_Looms_/global_war_looms
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > _.      Html  American Free Press  June 29, 2003
> >
> >  >
> >  > By Gordon Thomas
> >  > 
> > http://www.americanfreepress.net/06_29_03/Global_War_Looms_/global_war_looms.html
> >  > American Free Press  June 29, 2003
> >
> >      Incredible! The American Free Press, is the successor publication to,
> >  The Spotlight, a neo-fascist newspaper, in faux populist, anti-
> >  establishment garb. The publisher is Willis Carto, a neo-fascist follower,
> >  of one of the few significant (the other being Lawrence Dennis, author of
> >  ,"The Coming American Fascism, " which, I think Columbia Univ. Press has
> >  reissued) USA fascist intellectuals, Francis Parker Yockey, subject of a
> >  great biography by Kevin Coogan, reviewed by libertarian communist, Loren
> >  Goldner here, from Race Traitor and Le Monde Diplomatique,
> >  http://home.earthlink.net/~lrgoldner/yockey.html .
> >    Another publication of Willis Carto is, "The Barnes Review, " a,
> >  "Holocaust Revisionist/Denialist journal, where, since the, "Journal of
> >  Historical Review, " of the IHR was wrested from his control by Mark Weber
> >  of the IHR, such rancid material is published. http://www.barnesreview.org/
> >     Samples from The Barnes Review
> >  EPIC: The Story of the Waffen SS
> >
> >  Narrated by the legendary hero of the Waffen SS, General Leon Degrelle, the
> >  video gives a complete historical background leading up to WWII. This is
> >  the story of the incredible and almost unknown (in the U.S.) fighting
> >  force.Ý A documentary that will enlighten and astound you. English
> >  voiceover.
> >  #117.
> >
> >  VHS color, 90 minutes, $22.95. (click here)
> >
> >  Ads for the new book by neo-Nazi, David Duke and biography of Rudolf Hess.
> >
> >     Andre Gunder Frank, I've seen your work in publications of the Mandelite
> >  Fourth International, and read at least two of your many books in college,
> >  as well as anything you had in Monthly Review and elsewhere. Why, must you,
> >  along with Michel Chossudovsky, besmirch Trotskyism and marxism more
> >  generally by giving any type of creedence to anything damn anti-
> >  establishment conspiranoia that Chossudovsky forwards to you from such
> >  loony outfits as the American Free Press, John Kaminski or Michael Hoffman
> >  II, another explicitly neo-fascist nut up in Idaho?
> >     I seldom agree with Lou Proyect on anything, but, when a credulous
> >  subscriber to his last marxmail list, forwarded a piece by Michael Collins
> >  Piper, a longtime writer for The Spotlight and The American Free Press, Lou
> >  chewed out the poster and said that Piper was an anti-semitic Holocaust
> >  Revisionist, and to never send anything from such a source again.
> >  Michael Pugliese
>
>
>
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>                ANDRE    GUNDER      FRANK
>
> Senior Fellow                                      Residence
> World History Center                    One Longfellow Place
> Northeastern University                            Apt. 3411
> 270 Holmes Hall                         Boston, MA 02114 USA
> Boston, MA 02115 USA                    Tel:    617-948 2315
> Tel: 617 - 373 4060                     Fax:    617-948 2316
> Web-page:csf.colorado.edu/agfrank/     e-mail:franka@fiu.edu
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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