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Re: Saima Alvi's Contribution to Understanding by Paul Gomberg 01 October 2002 18:15 UTC |
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I want to second Matthew Caygill's comment. The anti-Semites and Zionists share a premise: the identification of Israel with "the Jews" or "Jews." So for the anti-Semite any Israeli brutality is perpetrated by "the Jews" and for some Zionists any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism, an attack on "Jews" generally. Paul "Caygill, Matthew [CES]" wrote: > Oddly the quote given doesn't contain anything like the anti-semitism that > is alleged, whereas the comments about the 'whole world' and nothing needing > to be said about it seemed to me like a version of the generalisation that > the proposed rule 13a would prohibit - even if cast in the negative. And > this sort of discourse is really a very familiar attempt to prevent > criticism or opposition to Israel. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: lr [SMTP:luca269_up2000@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 10:23 AM > > To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu > > Subject: Re: Saima Alvi's Contribution to Understanding > > > > I have to thank you because I missed that article. It seems that you need > > a second read, because it is just a collection of others' quotations. Many > > of them quite factual and/or authoritative. Did you check its sources? > > Regards. > > l. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kessler Adam <mailto:adkes@pipeline.com> > > To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu <mailto:wsn@csf.colorado.edu> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:10 AM > > Subject: Saima Alvi's Contribution to Understanding > > > > > > > > > > In the 19th century it was deemed perfectly acceptable > > for educated, well-meaning people to make generalizations about ethnic, > > religious or national groups along the lines of: "the Irish are > > drunkards," or "the Negroes are happy-go-lucky," or "the X are a > > commercial race." Then around 60-70 years ago with the rapid rise of > > modern racism this began to change. Expressions of this type slowly > > disappeared from civilized discourse. It is unimaginable for example, for > > someone on this list to utter a sentence like "the blacks are criminals,'' > > even though prisons throughout America are filled with black people. > > > > The piece by Mark Weber which Alvi is disseminating > > demonstrates that there is one people about whom such sentences can still > > (or again?) be spoken: "the" Jews. The article itself consists of layers > > and layers of lies, non sequiturs, and paranoia: in other words the most > > standard kind of old-fashioned anti-Semitism, which is apparently > > acceptable nowadays in some circles, especially on what might be called > > "the stupid left." It is useless to try to disentangle such stuff. One > > comment will suffice: Kofi Annan is quoted as saying that "the whole world > > is demanding that Israel withdraw [etc., etc.]. I don't think the whole > > world...can be wrong." The "whole world" presumably consists of the 191 > > members of the U.N. Among these are countries such as Libya, Sudan and > > Syria which are regarded as perfectly respectable, eligible to serve on > > the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, etc. Nothing more needs to be said > > about "the world." > > > > But I wish to make a more general contribution to > > current discourse on this list and elsewhere. And that is to formulate a > > set of modern debating rules. Rule 13a goes like this: > > > > Rule 13a: > > If in the course of a debate participant P > > states: the X are Y (where for X substitute a religious, ethnic national > > or "racial" group and for Y substitute some attribute, positive or > > negative) then P is a jerk. > > > >
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