Re: dialogue of civilizations?

I completely agree that the use of the "civilization"
it is merely a ideological way to hide, and the worse
to naturalize the material basis and situation of the
peoples of the third world, for example. 

 Gonzalo,
Political Science student, Universidad de Buenos Aires



 --- francesco ranci <francescoranci@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you put a certain number of trees together, you
> have a "wood" ("forest", "jungle"). The term "wood"
> in
> such a case is not more "ideological" than any other
> term. Many ships can make a "fleet" and many human
> beings can become a "people", many words a
> "language"
> and many ideas a "culture", many habits can make a
> "civilization"... and so on (you may prefer to say
> tha
> a culture is made of habits and a civilization of
> rules, or elsewise, but my point is not about how to
> achieve the best semantic results right now).
> 
> I agree that terms like "civilizations" are often
> used
> in a vicious way, from my point of view. But also
> are
> many other terms. We can't abolish them.
> 
> Best regards,
> Francesco Ranci
> 
> --- Andre Gunder Frank <franka@fiu.edu> wrote:
> > 
> > There has been a vivid discussions among Eastern
> > Intellectuals on the
> > problem of inter-civilizational dialogue.
> > 
> > Indeed the UN named 2001 the Year of Dialogue of
> > Civilizations.
> > Therefore the UN University in Tokyo had a big
> > conference about it.
> > Here is the fist paragraph of my intervention
> there
> > [the remainder is on
> > my web-page]
> > 
> > DIALOGUEs-YES.  CIVILIZATIONs- NO.
> > NOT EVEN SOCIETIES NOR CULTURES.
> > 
> > CIVILIZATIONS NO: There are no and have never been
> > distinct pristine
> > civilizationS, societieS, cultureS nor even
> peopleS.
> > The very ideas are
> > nothing but ideology, pure and simple although
> their
> > use occults - that
> > term is created chosen deliberately! - simple and
> > complex reality. In the
> > plural, the invention and use of these terms
> > especially in reference to
> > one's own "civilization" as distinct from others,
> > not to mention
> > "barbarism" of others, knowingly or not represents
> > an often occult and
> > sometimes even express claim -no more and no more
> > less - to an alleged
> > superiority. It invokes a [God?] chosen Herrenvolk
> > of us, distinct from
> > and even against others.  This claim since the
> > nineteenth century and
> > still in the twenty-first, has recently been most
> > and best expressed in
> > and through still widely reigning American
> ideology.
> > With abundant
> > self-congratulation it claims already to have
> > arrived at The End of
> > History [Fukayama] even as it still faces "The
> Clash
> > of Civilizations" of
> > "The West against the Rest," [Huntington] and
> Jihad
> > vs. McDonaldization
> > [Barber] to combat "The Coming Anarchy in the
> World"
> > [Kaplan]. All of
> > these pundits and their misleading civilizational
> > theses of civilizational
> > clash between "us" and "them" are ideologically
> > suspect and
> > socio-politically divisive, often intentionally
> so.
> > We must counter them
> > with more realistic and at the same time humano-
> and
> > eco-centric studies
> > with messages that reflect past, present and
> future
> > reality as well as our
> > continued need for diversity in unity and unity in
> > diversity.
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >    
> >
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > 
> >                ANDRE    GUNDER      FRANK
> > 
> > Senior Fellow                                     
> > Residence
> > World History Center                    One
> > Longfellow Place
> > Northeastern University                           
> > Apt. 3411
> > 270 Holmes Hall                         Boston, MA
> > 02114 USA
> > Boston, MA 02115 USA                    Tel:   
> > 617-948 2315
> > Tel: 617 - 373 4060                     Fax:   
> > 617-948 2316
> > Web-page:csf.colorado.edu/agfrank/    
> > e-mail:franka@fiu.edu
> > 
> >
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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