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Re: Defining the Islamic State by michael pugliese 08 March 2002 17:55 UTC |
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http://www.worldpress.org/europe/0102dagens.htm http://www.google.com/search?q=Bassam+Tibi&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 >--- Original Message --- >From: Alan Spector <spectors@netnitco.net> >To: "Charles J. Reid" <cjreid@sonic.net> >Date: 3/7/02 6:32:50 PM > >1) Your use of the word "cult" to describe all of Islam is revealing, since >you don't use that word to describe all of Christianity. > >2) The fact that you see Islam as "a threat to humanity" is revealing, since >you don't seem to think that the Christian nations, such as the U.S., with >all its nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and along with Europe, >its role in the oppression and death of so many millions over the past 100 >years constitutes a "threat to humanity".......but maybe you don't regard >what is happening in Africa as a "threat to humanity" because you are >defining "humanity" in terms of "people like you", whatever that is. > >3) Anyone can quote anything about "people being afraid to face the truth." >(and quoting that great "humanitarian"...T.S. Eliot, at that!) Attaching >your ideas to such an expression doesn't mean that what you say is >true......one can easily toss that same expression back at you and your >unwillingness to face the reality of the crimes of imperialism. > >================ > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charles J. Reid" <cjreid@sonic.net> >To: "Alan Spector" <spectors@netnitco.net> >Cc: "Seyed Javad" <seyedjavad@hotmail.com>; <wsn@csf.colorado.edu> >Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:20 PM >Subject: Re: Defining the Islamic State > > >> Mr. Spector, yes, I generally consider organized religion a bane of >> humanity, as the child molestation of the Catholic Church is an indicator, >> along with other similar cults. But my comments about Islam has to be >> taken in context of the message I was responding to, as well as my own >> life experience in interacting with individuals of the Islam faith. I did >> not say they are evil, or anything like that. But a significant number of >> the 1.2 billion members of the cult fit the description I offered in my >> earlier note. I believe I am presenting facts, perhaps not nice, >> ("Humankind cannot acccept much truth", to paraphrase T.S. Eliot.). No, I >> have not met all 1.2 billion members of Islam, but I have come in contact >> with a significant statistical sample of "educated" members of the cult to >> be personally satisfied that my characterization is accurate. And now I >> will also add that Islam is a threat to the survival of mankind, unless it >> moves it's ideology closer to the 21st Century. This is not a derogatory >> remark on an particular individual, but it is a reflection on the current >> state of Islam as a cult and the impact too many of it's theological >> leaders has on individuals it influences across the globe. >> >> //CJR >> >> >> On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Alan Spector wrote: >> >> > I won't go into a long discussion of Islam. I can find much to criticize >in >> > all fundamentalist religions, and in fact, in aspects of "mainstream" >> > religion as well. However, I am a member of the WSN list, and as such, I >> > feel a responsibility to dissociate myself from the comments of "Charles >J. >> > Reid" reprinted below. I am astounded that such shallow, narrow-minded, >> > stereotyping appears on a list such as this and would not want anyone >who >> > reads it to assume that it represents any kind of sizeable percentage of >the >> > WSN list. >> > >> > Respectfully, >> > >> > Alan Spector >> > >> > >> > P.S. Has Mr. Reid paid much attention to the protection of child >molesting >> > priests by the Catholic Church or the late night Protestant Christian >> > "Healers" on late night television, or the preaching of extreme >Zionists. >> > The one sided stereotyping of "Islam" in general is appalling. >> > >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Charles J. Reid" <cjreid@sonic.net> >> > To: "Seyed Javad" <seyedjavad@hotmail.com> >> > Cc: <wsn@csf.colorado.edu> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:27 PM >> > Subject: Re: Defining the Islamic State >> > >> > >> > > My response to this piece is simply this: Modern Islam is dominated by >> > > forces who lack rationality and the "scientific method". The state of >> > > Islam today is about where the Catholic Church was at the time of >Giordano >> > > Bruno and Galileo. There is no theological leadership to move the >Islamic >> > > community from this absolutist, ideocratic state. What is needed IS a >> > > change of state. As long as madrasses where "the West is the enemy and >if >> > > you die killing you live'll forever with 70 virgins" is taught, >instead of >> > > reading, mathematics, and science, Islam will continue to be a >primitive >> > > community -- by and large -- and a point may be reached that the ony >> > > alternative other cultures have is "contain it" like we did the Soviet >> > > Union, so it will implode on the basis of its own irrationalities. >> > > >> > > //CJR >> > > >> > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Seyed Javad wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > In this article, one of the Contemporary Muslim thinkers define what >an >> > > > Islamic State is: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > seyedjavad >> > > > From: "Muzaffar Iqbal" >> > > > To: "Muzaffar Iqbal" >> > > > Subject: quantum note for friday march 1 >> > > > Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:06:16 -0700 >> > > > Friday March 01, 2002-- Zilhaj 16,1422 A.H. >> > > > Defining the Islamic State >> > > > Dr Muzaffar Iqbal >> > > > The writer is a freelance columnist >> > > > How would a contemporary Islamic state differ from non-Islamic >states? >> > > > Who >> > > > would rule this state and how? What would it be like to live in such >a >> > > > state? What would such a state do with the enormous gap between the >> > > > economic, scientific and technological status of Muslims and >> > non-Muslims? >> > > > These are some of the questions that need clear answers before any >such >> > > > state can come into existence. These are also the questions which >should >> > > > have been answered by Pakistan's Islamic parties in this election >year, >> > > > if >> > > > they are serious. >> > > > Muslims believe that the Qur'an and Sunnah are two living sources >that >> > > > are >> > > > as relevant today as they were fourteen hundred years ago when they >were >> > > > first revealed. They also believe that these twin sources contain >all >> > the >> > > > guiding principles that are needed by them now. At least this is the >> > > > position of the normative Islamic tradition and it is held by all >> > Muslims >> > > > who have their spiritual and intellectual roots in the Islamic >> > tradition. >> > > > The real question, then, is how to translate the guiding principles >> > found >> > > > in >> > > > these two sources into a practical model that will work in our >times. >> > > > This >> > > > is the task and challenge that Muslims have been actively pursuing >for >> > > > more >> > > > than a century, after waking up from their slumber, they found >> > themselves >> > > > colonized and realized that something has to be done. The most >immediate >> > > > challenge was to get rid of the colonizing powers. But in the very >> > > > struggle >> > > > for independence, there was something fundamentally wrong: no where >in >> > > > the >> > > > Muslim world did people realize that this struggle for independence >has >> > > > to >> > > > be based on Islam and not on nationalism. >> > > > This wrong footing was exactly what the French and the British >> > colonizers >> > > > had hoped for. They had actively sought to create an intellectual >> > > > northern >> > > > alliance, which would call for a western-style government and demand >> > > > independence on the model of Britain and France. And when the native >> > > > resources had been drenched and the cost of maintaining direct >control >> > on >> > > > the colonies was becoming more than what they were willing to pay, >the >> > > > colonizers departed leaving behind the firm grip of an >administrative, >> > > > educational and ruling structure so that it could be governed >through >> > > > remote >> > > > control. >> > > > Thus, Muslims in their own traditional lands were randomly divided >into >> > > > contemporary states, each governed by a system which ensured their >> > > > continuous enslavement. For centuries, these people had lived in >mutual >> > > > reliance, though not always in harmony. Between Hijaz and the great >> > > > steppes >> > > > of Central Asia, there was a vast territory that was and still >remains >> > > > the >> > > > home of Muslims. But then it was linked together through a chain of >> > great >> > > > cities which were also centers of learning. And while certain rulers >at >> > > > certain times brought huge armies against other Muslim rulers, the >Hajj >> > > > and >> > > > trade caravans traversed the Silk Route and continued to serve as >the >> > > > most >> > > > important vehicle for the flow of ideas and goods. >> > > > All of this was shattered with the occupation of Muslim lands by >> > > > Europeans. >> > > > And none of this was restored after their departure. This is a >> > > > fundamental >> > > > point that needs to be understood in no uncertain terms. The nation >> > > > states >> > > > that have emerged in the post World War II era are inherently >incapable >> > > > of >> > > > independent existence; this is also an economic impossibility. Thus >no >> > > > amount of reform would make it possible for these countries to be >> > > > self-sufficient and truly independent states with enough human and >> > > > material >> > > > resources to be free of IMF bondage. One cannot make a circle out of >a >> > > > square, no matter how one bangs it around. >> > > > Given these fact, what is the route to real independence and an >> > honorable >> > > > existence? How can Muslims regain control of their destinies? How >can >> > > > they >> > > > live a life that is not defined and dictated by the new Great Axis >of >> > > > Evil: >> > > > the United States of America, Britain and Israel? This is the >question >> > on >> > > > which all Muslim intellectuals and thinkers need to focus. The >> > > > post-September 11 events had hijacked all efforts from this most >> > > > important >> > > > task faced by Muslims; it is time to return to it. >> > > > Those who think that they can achieve this by forming some kind of >> > > > underground network that kidnaps reporters and kills them are >clearly >> > > > working against this cause. Likewise, those who wish to take up arms >> > > > against >> > > > their own rulers, create nothing but chaos. Similarly, those who are >> > busy >> > > > in >> > > > propagating a made in America version of Islam are also playing with >> > > > fire. >> > > > Islam, let us reiterate, is not merely a private affair that takes >up >> > > > public >> > > > face on Fridays; Islam is a living tradition, defined by an >> > > > all-encompassing >> > > > code. Indeed, Allah has called Himself, al-Muheet, the all >encompassing. >> > > > So, the task before Muslims is really clear. They need to devise a >> > > > practical >> > > > strategy to regain control of their destiny as a community of >believers. >> > > > The >> > > > defining factor for their existence is neither sectarian, nor tribal >or >> > > > national identity, but an identity based on the Qur'an. This is the >> > > > unambiguous position of the Qur'an itself. It declares in no >uncertain >> > > > terms >> > > > that Allah has made different communities and the best of >communities is >> > > > the >> > > > one which holds on to the rope of Allah. This is the community of >> > > > believers: >> > > > "You are the best community that has been sent forth to mankind [in >> > that] >> > > > you enjoin right and forbid wrong and have faith in Allah" (Q. >3:110). >> > > > In this task of regaining freedom, the very first thing to be >understood >> > > > is >> > > > that Islam cannot be imposed by somehow gaining hold of the >government >> > > > and >> > > > bringing out bands of militia. This is not the way of Islam. The >> > struggle >> > > > of >> > > > so-called Islamic political parties to win elections and form >> > governments >> > > > to >> > > > implement Islam is doomed. And so are those who demand imposition of >> > > > Islam >> > > > by state decrees. True, there are some injections of Islamic Law >(the >> > > > Shariah) that require state legislation. But most of Islam does not >> > > > require >> > > > state laws for its implementation. >> > > > An Islamic state emerges; it is not established. An Islamic state >comes >> > > > into >> > > > existence through the most natural of ways, it is not a state that >is >> > > > established by decrees. An Islamic state is the end result of a long >> > > > process >> > > > of education, cultivation of Islamic ethos in private as well as >public >> > > > life. An Islamic state is like a beautiful tree that comes into >> > existence >> > > > because someone once planted a seed. An Islamic state is defined by >the >> > > > character of its inhabitants, not by the writ of law. >> > > > The character of the inhabitants of an Islamic state is the defining >> > > > factor >> > > > for the Islamic state. Given the current conditions of the Muslim >world, >> > > > the >> > > > greatest missing element in the emergence of an Islamic state is >none >> > > > other >> > > > than this defining factor. And this is what requires the greatest >> > > > attention >> > > > of all those who wish to establish an Islamic state. >> > > > In the simplest of terms, an Islamic state is a state in which the >prime >> > > > goal of the inhabitants of the land is to be a model of the Qur'anic >> > > > teachings. These are the people with whom Allah is pleased and who >are >> > > > pleased with Allah, as the Qur'an tells us. This is the only route >to an >> > > > Islamic state. Its most important constituent is none other than the >> > men, >> > > > women and children who live in it. >> > > > Thus, any organization, political or non-political, which wants to >> > > > contribute toward the emergence of an Islamic state, need to >concentrate >> > > > on >> > > > its most important building block: individual human beings. But how? >> > What >> > > > are the ways to do so? The answer must be sought in another >question: >> > How >> > > > did the Prophet of Islam do it? And that is the topic for the next >> > > > column. >> > > > ---------------------------------------------- >> > > > Center for Islam and Science >> > > > www.cis-ca.org >> > > > ------------------------------ >> > > > >> > > > >> > >____________________________________________________________________________ >> > ____ >> > > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >
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