Friends,
AS you can see, this interview was recorded in
1998. It is absolutely essential to understand what bin Laden's views and goals
are, how he sees things. I took the liberty of underlining a few passages which
i saw as more important for helping us make sense of what happened on Sep 11th,
and what may yet come to pass. PLease read it carefully.
Sorry for forwarding, but it was the only means of
getting to you all. Feedback is always welcome.
Best regards, Daniel
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 2:10 AM
Subject: [osint] Al-Jazirah TV Broadcasts Usama Bin Ladin's 1998
Interview
Al-Jazirah TV Broadcasts Usama Bin Ladin's 1998 Interview
GMP20010921000115 Doha Al-Jazirah Satellite Channel Television in Arabic
1805 GMT 20 Sep 01
Reference:
- FYI:
Revised Processing Plans for Al-Jazirah TV Usama Bin Ladin 1998 Interview
GMP20010921000012
[Interview with Usama Bin Ladin by Jamal Isma'il at an unspecified location
in Afghanistan in December 1998 -- recorded]
[Bin Ladin] Usama Bin-Muhammad Bin-Awad Bin
Ladin. Almighty God was gracious enough for me to be born to Muslim
parents in the Arabian Peninsula, in Al-Malazz neighborhood in Riyadh, in 1377
hegira [1957 or 1958 depending on the month in which he was born]. Then God was
gracious to us as we went to Holy Medina six months after I was born. For the
rest of my life I stayed in Hejaz moving between Mecca, Jedda, and Medina.
As it is well known, my father, Shaykh Muhammad
Bin-Awad Bin Ladin, was born in Hadramaut. He went to work in Hejaz at a very
early age, more than 70 years ago. Then God blessed him and bestowed on him an
honor that no other contractor has known. He built the holy Mecca Mosque, where
the holy Ka'bah is located and at the same time -- because of God's blessings to
him -- he built the holy mosque in Medina for our prophet, God's prayers be upon
him. Then when he found out that the Government of Jordan announced a tender for
restoration work on the Dome of the Rock Mosque, he gathered engineers and asked
them to estimate the cost price only, without profit. They said to him: With
God's help, we will be awarded the project and make some profit as well. He said
to them: Calculate only the cost price of the project. When they did, they were
surprised that he, may God have mercy on his soul, reduced the cost price in
order to guarantee that God's mosques, and this mosque in particular, are well
served. He was awarded the project. Because of God's graciousness to him,
sometimes he prayed in all three mosques in one single day. May God have mercy
on his soul. It is not a secret that he was one of the founders of the
infrastructure of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Afterward, I studied in Hejaz. I studied economy at Jedda University, or
the so-called King Abd-al-Aziz University. I worked at an early age on
roads in my father's company, may God have mercy on his soul. My father died
when I was 10 years old. This is something brief about Usama Bin
Ladin.
As to what he [Usama Bin Ladin] wants,
what we want and demand is the right of any living being. We want our land to be
freed of the enemies; we want our land to be freed of the Americans.
God equipped these living creatures with an instinctive zeal and they refuse to
be intruded upon. For instance, if an armed military man walks into a chicken's
home wanting to attack it, the chicken will fight back and it is only a chicken.
We are demanding a right given to all living creatures, not to mention the fact
that it is a right for all human beings, including the
Muslims.
There was an attack on the countries of
Islam, especially on the holy shrines and on Al-Aqsa Mosque, the prophet's first
Kiblah [direction to which Muslims turn when praying]. And then the aggression
continued with the Crusader-Jewish alliance being led by the United States and
Israel. Now they have taken the country of the two holy mosques. The only source
of strength is Allah.
We seek to instigate the nation
to get up and liberate its land, embark on jihad for the sake of God, and to
make the Islamic law the highest law, and the word of God the highest word of
all.
[Isma'il] Recently there was a joint US-British
attack on Iraq. First, how do you view this attack?
Second, the popular and official Arab and Islamic reactions were reportedly
below the required level of resistance, or below the Iraqi people's
expectations. What is your position on
this?
[Bin Ladin] The latest attack on Iraq a few days
ago was led by the United States and Britain. The attack underscored
many important and serious facts. We are not talking about the
material or human losses inflicted on our Muslim brothers in Iraq, but about the
implications of this attack. The United States accuses Iraq of using
toxic gases against the Kurds and against its people. It also accuses it of
using lethal weapons against Iran. What draws attention and what
people should consider is the fact is that the United States did not talk about
Iraq at that time; it supported it through its brokers and agents in the
region. When Iraq turned into a power to be reckoned with in the
region, and even became the biggest Arab power in the region that threatens
Jewish security and the security of the Israeli occupation of the land from
which our Prophet, God's peace and blessings be upon him, made his journey to
heaven, the United States began to dig up these things and claim it wants to
take it to task for them. It admits that Israel possesses lethal and
mass destruction weapons, but says it does not use them. Iraq
did. This argument is flimsy and rejected. The United
States is the one which possesses these weapons and is the one which attacked
nations in the farthest east, in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, after Japan had
surrendered and the World War was drawing to a conclusion.
Nevertheless, it insisted on striking at nations, including children, women, and
elderly people. In fact, we must consider Israel the real perpetrator of any
attack today on any state in the Islamic world.
However, for fear that people might wake up and huge popular movements would
emerge to topple the agent regimes, which failed to support Islam and Muslims or
the sake of maintaining their seats -- and the feelings of these nations were
somehow anesthetized toward the United States -- the Jews managed to employ the
Christians -- the Americans and British -- to carry out the duty of attacking
Iraq. The United States claims to be taking Iraq to
task. What is true, however, is that the Israeli and Jewish
authority is influential within the White House as is clear to
people. The defense secretary is a Jew, the secretary of state is a
Jew, CIA and National Security officials are Jews, other senior officials are
Jews. They led the Christians into breaking the wings of the Islamic world. The
target is not really Saddam Husayn, but the emerging power in the Islamic and
Arab world. They attacked the Iraqi people and earlier besieged
Libya because it had a chemical factory. They also attacked the
Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. One should note these
things.
Another implication of these incidents is
that they emphasized clearly and explicitly that Muslims and all sensible people
should not go to the United Nations. According to Islamic law,
Muslims should not appeal to these atheist temporal regimes. But we
also urge the non-Muslim wise men not to do so. Take North Korea, for
example. Will any wise man, even if he is an infidel, go to a court
where the judge ...[sentence incomplete as heard]. If a sentence is
issued against us, we will be painfully beaten up under what is falsely called
international legitimacy. If we are judged right, the United States
will use the veto. Accordingly, no Muslim should go there because
this conflicts with faith. Likewise, no wise person, even if he is
an infidel, should go there. Those who keep talking about the United Nations and
its resolutions are either ones who do not understand their religion or want to
anesthetize the nation by pinning hopes on what is sheer mirage and
delusion.
[Isma'il] Do you think the US-UK
attack on Iraq will increase the popularity of and support for the anti-US
organizations or subjugate and terrorize them against any military or
non-military action against the United States and its interests?
[Bin Ladin] In response to this question and
what preceded it, I would like to say it is time for the Islamic nation to
realize after these attacks that the states of the region are non-sovereign
states. Our enemies are moving freely in our seas, lands, and
space. They strike without seeking anyone's
permission. This time the United States and Britain were
not able to rally support for this flagrant and exposed conspiracy.
The present regimes are no longer capable of doing so. These regimes
are either colluding or having lost the ability to do anything against this
blatant occupation. The Muslims, particularly those in power
and people of good judgment -- true ulema, faithful merchants, and tribal chiefs
-- should emigrate for the sake of God and seek a place where they can raise the
banner of jihad and mobilize the nation into safeguarding their religion and
worldly affairs. Otherwise, they will lose everything.
They should learn a lesson from what was inflicted on our brothers in
Palestine. The Palestinian people were well known for their
activity and agricultural crops, citrus fruit, textiles, and soap, which they
used to export. The Palestinian people, who are our brothers, are
now displaced and expelled everywhere. Finally, they became laborers
employed by the colonialist Jews, who would allow them in or deny them entry
whenever they want and at the cheapest of wages. The situation is serious.
If we do not move now that the old house, the qiblah
[direction to which Muslims turn in prayer -- the Ka'bah in Mecca, Saudi Arabia]
of 1.2 billion Muslims, was encroached upon, when will people do so?
This is a significant matter that needs to be addressed.
Deluded are those who think that the current circumstances frighten the
Islamic movements. We the Muslims believe that the instant of death was fixed
the moment we came to existence in our mothers' wombs; it moves neither forward
nor backward. Our livelihood comes from the Almighty God. It is God
who created these souls and gave these funds to people. God has purchased of the
believers their persons and their goods. So, why should people fail to support
their religion?
[Isma'il] Following the first
US attack on Afghanistan last summer, the news agencies cited you or your
representative as saying that you will reply to the attack, but we have not
heard of any reply. Will there be a practical reply if there is a new US attack
on Afghanistan? How will the reply be?
[Bin Ladin] Our duty -- and we carried it out -- is to rouse the nation for
jihad against the United States, Israel, and their supporters for the sake of
God. We continue to move in the direction of instigating people. The
popular movement of the past few months gives hope. It is a step in
the right direction to force the Americans out of the Islamic countries. Due to
the circumstances surrounding us and due to our inability to move outside
Afghanistan to closely pursue this, we did only what we could. By the grace of
God, we, together with a large number of our brothers, formed the world front
for jihad against Jews and crusaders [al-salibiyin]. We believe
matters are proceeding well with many of them [brothers]. They are largely
active. We hope God will help them uphold religion and take revenge
from the Jews and Americans.
[Isma'il] This world
Islamic front was formed or announced seven or months ago. Thus far,
we have not heard anything from it other than the statement to which you
referred or the news conference you held in the city of Khost last
summer. Do you think the front is now practically
frozen?
[Bin Ladin] It is not
frozen. Its members are of diverse nationalities and have a large
margin of movement. They should not necessarily announce their
actions. These months cannot be considered much in the
effort to rouse the nation and resist the biggest enemy in the
world.
[Isma'il] The United States warned its
nationals in the Gulf states and the region in general against operations you
and your supporters may carry out, particularly during the current month of
Ramadan. How serious are these warnings and do you target the US
nationals in general or the US forces in the Gulf and some other Islamic
areas?
[Bin Ladin] I heard this a few days ago on
radio stations. It delighted me as it heralded the emergence of the
nation, thanks to Almighty God. As for the seriousness of threats,
I, regrettably, do not know who undertook this blessed effort. We
pray to the Almighty God to grant them success and bestow on them (?victory
over) the infidels -- Americans and others.
The
previous fatwa said that in our religion we have categories that are different
from what the infidels claim, although they claim something and act differently.
We differentiate between man, woman, child, and elderly people. The man is a
fighter, whether he carries arms or helps us in
our struggle by paying taxes and by gathering information. He is thus a fighter.
With regard to reports disseminated among Muslims that Usama is threatening to
kill civilians, I ask who are they killing in Palestine? They are killing
children, not only civilians, but also children. The United States took
exclusive possession of the media and managed to build huge media
power. It uses different standards at different times according to
its needs. With God's help, the target or enemy of Muslims is every
American man who is directly fighting us or paying
taxes.
You may have heard these days that
almost three quarters of the US people support Clinton's strikes against Iraq.
They are people whose president becomes more popular when he kills innocent
people. They are people who increase their support for their president
when he commits cardinal sins. They are a lowly people who do not at all
understand the meaning of values.
[Isma'il]
The US Pentagon published reports on your health. It attributed them
to Pakistani intelligence. They said you have developed an incurable
disease and may not live long. They said you will live only five or six months
at most. First, how true are these reports? Second, what
is the purpose of publishing these reports now after issuing warnings to US
nationals against possible operations by you and your
supporters?
[Bin Ladin] I enjoy a very good health,
praised be God, whom we always thank. As you can see, we are living
in the mountains. We endure this bitter cold; we also endure the
summer heat. Praised be God, I continue to practice my favorite
hobby, which is horse-riding. Thanks to God, I still can ride a horse for 70 km
without stopping. These are tendentious rumors, possibly intended to affect the
morale of Muslims sympathizing with us. They may also be intended to
dispel the Americans' fears that Usama might do something. What is true is that things do not hinge on Usama.
This is a nation of 1.2 billion Muslims, which absolutely cannot leave God's old
house to the malicious Jews and Christians. The nation, God willing,
will continue [along this path]. We are confident that they will
continue jihad and continue to deal painful blows
to the United States and its supporters, God
willing.
[Isma'il] When the United
States bombed Afghanistan on 20 August it was reported that you were attending a
meeting in the Khost area, which was the target of the US missiles.
It was also reported that the missile attack was timed to coincide with your
presence at that meeting. Was there a meeting and were you present
there? It was also said that you received a message from a
neighboring country; namely, Pakistan, asking you to immediately leave that
place because it could possibly be attacked. What is your
relationship with Pakistan and what is its attitude toward you? Do
you think Pakistan will cooperate with the United States in dealing a blow to
you?
[Bin Ladin] Praised be God. The
Americans apparently had wrong information. I was not in Khost. I
was not anywhere in the Bektiya Province. I was a few hundred
kilometers away from that place. As for what was said about information reaching
us, we, with the help of God, found in Pakistan sympathetic and generous
people. Their sympathy exceeded all our expectations.
May God bless them. We get information from our beloved ones and supporters of
jihad against the Americans for the sake of God. The people of
Pakistan gave a clear indication of how much they hate the US arrogance against
the Islamic world. There are groups in Pakistan that sympathize with
Islam and jihad against Americans. There are also other groups,
which are few but, regrettably, continue to cooperate with the Americans, the
nation's enemies.
[Isma'il] Do you mean on
the official level?
[Bin Ladin] I mean the
government; groups within the government.
[Isma'il] Some Arab and foreign newspapers published reports on your attempt to
possess nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, particularly via some
merchants from central Asian states or former Soviet republics. How
true are these reports, especially since the US Administration recorded these
accusations in the list of 235 charges leveled at you. It says you
are seriously seeking to possess such weapons.
[Bin
Ladin] As I said, we are demanding our right to have them [the Americans]
evicted from the Islamic world and to prevent them from dominating us. We
believe that the right to self-defense is to be enjoyed by all people. Israel is
stockpiling hundreds of nuclear warheads and bombs and the Christian West is
largely in possession of such weapons. Hence, we do not regard this as a
charge, but rather as a right. We refuse to see anybody level charges
against us in this regard. It is as if you were accusing a man of being a brave
knight and fighter. It is as if you were denying him this. Only a man who is not
in his right mind would level such accusations. This is a right. We supported
the Pakistani people and congratulated them when God was gracious enough to
enable them to acquire the nuclear weapon. We regard this as one of our
rights, of Muslim rights. We will not pay attention to these worn-out
US charges.
[Isma'il] Is this a confirmation of the
charges that you are seeking to possess such weapons?
[Bin Ladin] These are not charges. It is the duty of the Muslims to
possess them. The United States knows that with the help of Almighty
God the Muslims today possess these weapons.
[Isma'il]
The US Administration leveled accusations at you on issues they said related to
terrorism and the support extended to terrorist groups and others. Are you ready
to counter these accusations and stand trial in a neutral court in another
state?
[Bin Ladin] There are two parties to
the conflict: World Christianity, which is allied with Jews and Zionism, led by
the United States, Britain, and Israel. The second party is the
Islamic world. In such a conflict, it is unacceptable to see the first party
mount attacks, desecrate my land and holy shrines, and plunder the Muslims' oil.
When Muslims put up resistance against this party, they are branded as
terrorists. This is stupidity. It is an insult to people's intelligence. We
believe that it is our religious duty to resist this occupation with all the
power we have and to punish it using the same means it is pursuing against
us.
[Isma'il] But the Taliban government said
it will try you if hard evidence is presented by any state or quarter on the
charges leveled at you. Will you agree to stand trial according to the Islamic
law, which is being applied by Taliban?
[Bin Ladin] We
left our country to undertake jihad for the sake of Almighty God.
God has honored us with this blessed emigration out of our desire to apply the
shari'ah [Islamic law]. This is what we left for -- a country where
there is a religious court that applies the Islamic shari'ah away from pressures
and personal whims. This is our aim and demand. We are ready at any
time to appear before any religious court, in which both the plaintiff and
defendant stand. If the plaintiff is the United States, we will also sue it for
many things and cardinal sins it committed in the land of Islam.
When the Americans, God fight them, asked Taliban to hand me over, they
refused to apply the shari'ah. They said: We demand one thing, that
is, to hand over Usama Bin Ladin. They deal with
people as if they were their slaves or servants. This is due to
their arrogance. May God disgrace
them.
[Isma'il] Regarding the bombings
against the US embassies in East Africa -- in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam --
charges were made against you, based on the confessions published in some
Pakistani and world newspapers. They were attributed to Muhammad Sadiq Huwaydah,
who was arrested in Pakistan and handed over to the United States and Kenyan
authorities. He claimed that you ordered him to carry out the
bombings. What is your opinion about these bombings and what is your
relationship with Muhammad Sadiq Huwaydah?
[Bin Ladin]
With the grace of Almighty God, they [bombings] delighted Muslims in the Islamic
world. Those who followed world press and media reports saw the
extent of the Islamic world's sympathy with the strikes against the Americans,
although people regretted the death of some innocent people of that
country. What was clear was the mammoth wave of joy that swept
through the Islamic world. This is so because they believe that the
Jews and the United States have gone too far in their tyranny and scorn of
Muslims. Peoples failed to make the Islamic states move to defend
them or their religion. Therefore, these were purely popular
reactions by young men who willingly offered their lives, seeking the
satisfaction of Almighty God. I hold in great esteem and respect these great men
because they removed the brand of shame from the forehead of our [Islamic]
nation when they carried out the bombings in Riyadh, Al-Khubar, East Africa, and
elsewhere.
I also view with great esteem our brother
cubs in Palestine, who are teaching the Jews great lessons in faith and pride of
the faithful. Regrettably, after these daring operations in Palestine, the
world's infidelity gathered. It is a cause of sadness that they gathered on the
soil of Egypt. They gathered their agents from the rulers of the region -- the
Arab rulers -- who had been deceiving the Islamic nation for more than half a
century. Whenever a president and a king met they said they discussed the
Palestinian cause. Fifty years later, the clear picture emerged; namely, they
met not only to betray the mujahidin in Palestine, but to denounce those cubs
whose fathers and brothers were killed, imprisoned, or tortured for trying to
defend their religion or expel the infidels from their land. The proverb says:
Clear things are impossible to explain. I do not know what people
are waiting for after this clear agentry and submission by the Arab rulers in
favor of the Jews and the United States.
[Isma'il]
Yes, but the United States says it is confident and has evidence on your
involvement in these operations. It has not yet revealed this
evidence. It was reported that investigations revealed that a person
-- one of your group or your supporters -- confessed many things to the US
intelligence about your organization and your connection with operations,
including the bombing of the World Trade Center.
[Bin
Ladin] The US claims are numerous. If we presume that they are true, we are not
concerned about them. These people are resisting the forces of world
infidelity that occupied their land. Why should the United States get angry when
the people resist its aggressions? Its claims are baseless. However, if
it means that I have something to do with instigating them, I would like to say
that this is obvious. I have always admitted this. I admitted that I was one of
those who cosigned the fatwa [legal religious ruling] that urged the nation to
engage in jihad. We did so a few years ago. Praised be God, many
people responded favorably to our fatwa. Of these people were the brothers whom
we regard as martyrs. They were brother Abd-al-Aziz al-Mi'thim, who was killed
in Riyadh, brother Muslih al-Shamrani, brother Riyad al-Hajiri, and brother
Khalid al-Sa'id. The only strength is that bestowed by God. We beseech Almighty
God to accept them all. During interrogation, they admitted to being influenced
of some of the statements and circulars we issued to the people. In these
statements and circulars, we communicated the fatwas issued by clergymen
regarding the need to engage in jihad against these US
occupiers.
The Buddhists, North Koreans, and
Vietnamese fought against the Americans. This is a legitimate right.
What right do the Arab and Islamic media have to criticize the Mujahidin, who
emulated and were inspired by Prophet Muhammad, God's peace and blessings be
upon him. The prophet was quoted as saying: By Him in whose hand is my soul, I
love to invade and get killed, then invade and get killed again, and then invade
and get killed. It is our wish to embark on jihad for the sake of
God. I had earlier told some Western media that we missed a great deal of honor for
not participating in killing the Americans in Riyadh.
These accusations are baseless in part and parcel, unless they meant
instigation. True, I, together with many of my brotherly Islamic scholars,
instigated the nation to embark on jihad.
[Isma'il] Muhammad Sadiq Huwaydah claimed that he received training in your
camps and that he personally knew you. How true are his claims and
the statements attributed to him by some news media?
[Bin Ladin] What I know is that more than 15,000 young men, mostly Arabs,
received training in the camps of jihad in Afghanistan. God has
bestowed his grace on us and helped us open these camps during the jihad against
the Soviet Union. Some trainees were brothers from the Islamic
world. I firmly believe that the claim that I asked him to carry out the bombing
is a falsehood fabricated by the US government. It has no evidence
on this. Even if we suppose that brother Huwaydah said this, he must
have said this or made this confession under torture. The torture
methods in Pakistan or East Africa are well known.
[Isma'il] But Muhammad Sadiq Huwaydah also claimed
that you ordered the assassination of Shaykh Abdallah Azzam in Peshawar in 1989
and that there was struggle over the leadership of the Arab Afghans or Arab
mujahidin in Afghanistan between you and Shaykh Abdallah Azzam, who chaired the
services bureau. How true are these claims and how do you describe your
relationship with Shaykh Abdallah?
[Bin Ladin] Shaykh
Abdallah Azzam, may God have mercy on his soul, was a man worth a
nation. His assassination clearly showed how sterile the Muslim
women are for not giving birth to a man like him. The people of
jihad, who were in the field and lived that era, know that the Islamic jihad in
Afghanistan did not benefit from anyone as much as it benefited from Shaykh
Abdallah Azzam. He prodded the nation [for jihad] from the farthest
east to the farthest west. During the blessed jihad, he worked with
our brother mujahidin in Palestine, particularly HAMAS. His books,
particularly his book "The Verses of the Most Merciful" began to enter Palestine
and urge the nation to undertake jihad against the Jews. He began to break out
of the narrow regional circle observed by Islamists and Shaykhs and open up on
the Islamic world to prod for jihad. We were in one boat
as is known to you, along with our brother Wa'il (Jalidan). A plot
was concocted to assassinate all. We were very careful not to be
together all the time. I often asked Shaykh Abdallah Azzam to stay
away from Peshawar due to the increasing plots, especially since a week or two
ago a bomb was discovered in the mosque where the shaykh lives in Sab'
al-Layl.
The Jews were mostly harmed by the movements
of Shaykh Abdallah. It is believed that Israel, along with some of its Arab
agents, were the ones who assassinated the shaykh. The Jews,
Americans, and some of their agents are spreading this accusation [that Bin
Ladin ordered the killing of Azzam] these days. It is illogical for
someone to behead himself. Those who were in the field knew how
strong my relationship with Shaykh Abdallah Azzam was. These are falsehoods said
by some and they are baseless. There was no competition between
us. Shaykh Abdallah's specialization was in the field of call and
instigation. We were in the Bektiya mountains. He sent
us young men and we observed his directives and
instructions. We pray to God to accept him as a martyr,
together with his sons Muhammad and Ibrahim, and to make up for his loss by
sending someone who can carry out the duty he used to carry
out.
[Isma'il] Following the US missile attack on
Afghanistan, the US President ordered an economic or financial war against you
and the commercial institutions you are running of dealing with. It is said that
the stage of drying up your financial resources has begun. Wouldn't
this cause you financial problems and lead to the dispersal of your supporters
in the coming stage?
[Bin Ladin] War has its ups and
downs; we either win or lose.
The United
States exerted extremely strong pressures on our activities at an early
stage. This affected us. Some of the states, in which we
have funds and property, responded. They ordered us to stop
antagonizing the United States. But we believe it is our duty to
instigate the nation. We continued the
instigation. With the help of the Almighty God, we
continued and now we have been doing so for several years.
The US pressures did not actually begin with the latest bombardment.
Some Arab countries put economic pressures on us, denying us our rights and even
preventing our people from paying us our money. They are
thus following the footsteps of Abdallah Bin-Salul, the leader of the
hypocrites, about whom God said: They are the ones who say spend
nothing on those who are with God's apostle to the end that they may disperse,
but to God belong the treasures of heavens and the earth; but the hypocrites
understand not. [Koranic verse]
The Almighty God has
punished them and they now live in a hardship worse then the restrictions they
imposed on us. As our prophet, God's peace and blessing be upon him,
said, the one who is secure among his people, sound in his health, and capable
of earning his livelihood will possess all the world. By
God, we feel that the whole world is with us. Money is
perishable. We call on Muslims to spend their money on jihad and be
with the jihad movements, which have devoted themselves to fighting the
Jews and crusaders.
[Isma'il] You declared jihad against Christians and
Jews, especially Americans, in the fatwa issued last February. But, that fatwa
coincided with a decision by several Islamist groups, which once engaged in
armed struggle, to suspend this struggle, as is the case now in Egypt and
Algeria. And in some Arab countries, we have also seen these
Islamist groups engaging in parliamentary life or what is termed the democratic
game. Don't you think that by calling for jihad now that you are moving against
the general trend taken by these Islamist groups?
[Bin
Ladin] We believe that Jihad is a duty for the nation today. But, we have to
distinguish between jihad as a duty and the ability to carry it out. Any country
that has insured the necessary requirements for jihad -- number and equipment --
Muslims there should embark on jihad against the great infidel. Now
in some countries, people may think that they have insured the requirements, but
discover after a while they have not. In such a case, they are exempted of that
duty. But, who defines the requirements? Is it those who
went after worldly affairs or those who do not have enough juristic or military
knowledge? So the correct thing here is that although jihad is a
duty it could be ruled out due to lack of ability. But preparation
to insure the number of equipment cannot be ruled out.
There is frequent talk among Muslims this is not the time for jihad. Now, this
is incorrect if not properly documented. Some scholars also say this
is not the time for jihad. This is really wrong if documented. But,
if they say that jihad is a duty today and we are striving with all the means in
our power to insure the number, equipment, and other necessary requirements,
this is correct. Islamic scholar Ibn-Taymah, may God be pleased withim, says on
this point: The one who issues the ruling on jihad must be one who
is conversant with the Islamic shari'ah and with the conditions of jihad. In
other words, he must have engaged in jihad himself.
But, when jihad stopped among the nation for a while, there emerged a generation
of religious scholars who had no experience in jihad. They fell
under the influence of the US media that invaded the Islamic countries, and were
thus defeated psychologically even before engaging in military
action. They say: we cannot go for jihad. True, Jihad is
necessary, but we cannot do it.
But, the correct thing
is that those on whom God bestowed the grace of jihad as Afghanistan, Bosnia,
and Chechneya -- God has also bestowed this grace on us -- can with God's help,
fight against the enemies of Islam, especially the outside great enemy, the
crusader-Jewish alliance. I wish to point out here that some youths, may God
preserve and bless them, are influenced by the hesitation of their elders. They
think that these revered elders would not have hesitated had they not known the
interests of the nation. But, facts have shown that this is not the case at
all. It is not necessary for the hesitation of the revered ones stem
from their awareness of the general interest.
When
reading the Holy Koran we find that righteous ones, may God be pleased with
them, were rebuked by God for their hesitation. So if the chaste,
righteous leaders, may God be pleased with them, had suffered from this disease
of hesitation over jihad, how could we claim that our present day righteous ones
were hesitant over jihad for the sake of the general
interest?
In the Holoy Koran sura of Al-Anfal, God
says, addressing his prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him,
and the Badr Battle fighters, who were among the most righteous, may God rest
their souls in peace: "Just thy Lord ordered thee out of thy house in truth,
even though a party among the believers disliked it. Disputing with thee
concerning the truth after it was made manifest, as if they were being driven to
death and they (actually) saw it." If this description had applied to the Badr
Battle fighters, the most righteous ones, it is only natural to apply to us as
well.
Ka'ab Ibn-Malik, may God be pleased with him,
says in a long tradition in the book of the prophet traditions: "Bukhari wa
Muslim": I hesitated to join the Tabuq conquest although I was in good health
and had two camels. I tried to get ready, but the day passed without being able
to prepare myself. The prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him,
also called for that jihad around harvest time when I wanted to harvest my
crops.
The human being is always subject to worldly
interests. Yet this man was among the vanguards. In fact, he was among those who
signed the great, blessed Aqaba Allegiance Accord that launched the State of
Islam in Medina. Still, he stayed behind without any
reason.
In that long tradition, Ka'ab said that three
men stayed behind. This was also mentioned in the Holy
Koran. The story says that those who left for the Tabuq conquest
were 33,000. What is 3 compared to 33,000? This number is
insignificant today for any army commander. The absence of 3 out 33,000 is an
insignificant number. But, due to the great sin committed God
Almighty from the seven heavens mentioned this in the Holy Koran so as to be
taken a point against these three men to Doomsday. Ka'ab, may God be pleased
with him, said: I felt so grieved and went to my cousin, Abu-Qatadah, who was
closest to me, and asked him: O Abu-Qatadah, By the name f God, don't I love God
and his prophet?" What a strange question! But, Ka'ab wanted to make
sure of his greatest possession in life, his love for God prophet.
To him, there was no meaning to our life without the love for God and the
prophet.
Ka'ab said: My cousin did not reply. I
appealed to him the second and third time. But, Abu-Qatadah could not confirm
his love for God and the prophet. How could he prove it when he
stayed behind with others? For it was said that the Romans were
getting ready to attack Islam in Tabuq. The prophet left in the heat of the day
to defend Islam while Ka'ab stayed behind. How could he confirm his
love for God and the prophet. Abu-Qatadah could not confirm or deny his love for
God and the prophet, but finally said: God and his prophet would
know. Ka'ab shed a tear. His closest friend could not confirm this
great thing.
The lesson here is that jihad is a duty
for the nation. The unable may not have to go for jihad.
But, we believe that those who waged jihad in Afghanistan performed a great
duty. They managed with their limited resources of RPG's, anti-tank
mines, and kalashnikovs to defeat the biggest legend known to mankind,
to destroy the biggest war machine, and to remove from our minds the so-called
big powers.
We believe that the
United States is a great deal weaker
than Russia. We have learned that from our brothers who fought in Somalia. They
saw wonders about the weakness, feebleness, and cowardliness of the US
soldier. Hardly 80 of them were killed, when they fled in the dark
of the night, despite the uproar that was created worldwide about the New World
Order.
This is our belief. If
people fear God and think that they can go to jihad, then they should do so. And
if they think that their present circumstances call for further preparations,
then they should do so. God is all-knowing.
[Isma'il]
The US Administration has allocated the sum of $5 million for your capture or
for information that could lead to your capture. Some people think
that this sum could attract one of your followers and make him reveal
information about you or betray you. Don't you fear betrayal by
anyone?
[Bin Ladin] God be praised. You have come and
seen what we have. These youths -- and we pray to God to bless them
and those who fell martyrs among them throughout this blessed jihad -- have
abandoned worldly life and come to these mountains and land. They left their
families, fathers, mothers, and universities and came here to face the shelling
by US Cruise and other missiles. Some of them were killed, as you
have learned from our brothers. Six Arab brothers and one brother Turk were
killed. May God accept them all as martyrs. They
included our brother Al-Siddiq from Egypt, our brother Hamdi from Egypt, and
three of our brothers from Yemen, including our brother Bashir, who was known by
the name "Suraqah," There was also our brother Abu-Jihad, and our brother Zayd
Salah Mutabbaqani from Medina.
These men left worldly
affairs and came for jihad. The United States, which worships money,
thinks that people here are like it. I swear to God that we have not shifted
anyone from his place despite this propaganda. We do not suspect our brothers.
Still God is our judge.
[Isma'il] On your relationship
with the Afghan Government or Taliban Movement, what is the nature of this
movement? Are you part of this movement, or are you working
independently in Afghanistan?
[Bin Ladin] God has
blessed this movement. It is now 14 years since the beginning of the jihad that
was waged by the former mujahidin. The Taliban had a role in that jihad and
helped with the defeat of the Soviet Union. Those who raised the flag of jihad
at that early stage were blessed by God and made them defeat the largest country
in the world and the biggest military power.
Regrettably, however, the Taliban did not capitalize on that victory. There was
also disagreement, in which the United States and some pro-US Arab states had a
hand. They caused sedition between the mujahidin and this
led to fighting, which everyone regretted. This increased the suffering of the
Muslim people in Afghanistan.
What is
regrettable now is that many of the benevolent have stopped their support for
Afghanistan on the pretext of internal fighting. This is wrong
because the widows and orphans, whose husbands and fathers were killed in the
war, continue to suffer. The benevolent among Muslims
should have come here to patronize these orphans and widows. But,
the Satan made them give up support for Muslims, who defended Islam here and in
the whole Islamic World, especially the Gulf states.
Whoever looks at the map will know that Afghanistan was not the real the target
but a passageway for the Soviet forces. Having achieved great gains in worldwide
at the time, the Russians thought of dealing a final blow to the West, seize the
Strait of Hormuz, occupy all Gulf states, and seize the largest oil reserves in
the world. This explains why some Gulf states, in fact all of them,
considered backing the Afghan jihad an act of self-defense. They
were partners in that battle. But, when the Russians were defeated, they turned
their back on the Afghans. In fact, Gulf news media began attacking jihad and
mujahidin and some Gulf states actually colluded in creating sedition among the
mujahidin.
God blessed Muslims with the arrival of
Taliban rule. This was not the result of a push by outside forces,
as portrayed by the western crusader news media, but by a pull from inside
forces. People got sick and tired of bandits and the levying of
duties and taxes. Any tribe that had religious scholars linked to
Taliban asked the movement to come to its region. Thus, we find that Engineer
Hikmatyar spent four years outside Kabul with open Pakistani support without
being able to venture a single step in the direction of the city.
Yet the Islamic party led by Hikmatyar was the best among the Afghan parties in
terms of strength, order, organization, and deployment within Afghanistan. Still
he could not advance.
On the other hand, the Taliban
are young and many of them did not take part in the fighting [against the
Russians]. But, due to the internal pull from the people,
who got desperate with previous actions, God made them
triumph. We advice Muslims inside and outside Afghanistan to back
Taliban. We also advise Muslims abroad that any efforts that are exerted outside
the State of Islam will not achieve the desired results. Our prophet spent 13
years preaching in Mecca. But, the outcome was only a few hundred
followers. But, with the establishment of the State of Medina --
despite its small size amid the big the Persian and Roman empires and the
warring Arab tribes of Abs and Tibyan that gnawed at this small state -- right
triumphed in the end.
We call upon Muslims to back
Afghanistan with all their capabilities, thoughts, alms, and funds. Afghanistan
today carries the banner of Islam, God willing. Any attack by the United
States against Afghanistan today would not be against Afghanistan itself, but
against Afghanistan, the bearer of the flag of Islam, the true Islam that fights
for the sake of God.
God be praised
our relationship with them is very strong. It is an ideological
relationship that is based on faith rather than political or commercial
interests. Many states have tried to pressure the Taliban
through temptation and intimidation, but God strengthened
them.
[Isma'il] But, what is the truth about the
reports that spoke about the readiness or the possibility of Taliban movement or
government delivering you to any country in the case of official charges backed
by evidence?
[Bin Ladin] As you have heard the Taliban
have denied this talk. It is incorrect talk, as far as we know, but
God is all-knowing.
[Isma'il] You spoke about a while
ago about your participation in the Afghan jihad. You said that some states,
especially the Gulf states, encouraged the mujahidin, and in fact aided
them. Among the countries that aided the mujahidin against the
Soviet Union at the time was the United States. Western and world news media
said that you were linked to the US Administration or intelligence during the
jihad against the Soviet Union. How true was that relationship if it existed and
what is your position on it. And is it true that the Americans had a
role in developing your activities against the Soviet Union at that
time?
[Bin Ladin] Let me go back to a point in your
previous question on whether we work here independently. Actually,
we are not working here independently. We are in a state with an Emir of the
Faithful. We are legally bound to obey him in whatever that does not violate
God's words. We are committed to this state and call on people to
support it. We also warn, as we said, against the confusion created
by the United States. It wants to strike at the state of Islam in Afghanistan by
raising the flag of striking at Usama Bin Ladin. But, this will not
do.
As far as we are concerned, we have come
out here while knowing our course right from the beginning. US
missiles would not scare us, God willing. But, we warn them that any
attack against this people, would be an aggression on the state of
Islam. Due to certain circumstances in Afghanistan, the
Taliban have expressed the view that we should not operate from within
Afghanistan against any other state. This was the decision
of the Emir of the Faithful, as everyone knows.
But,
we continue to rouse the nation, God be praised. We feel confident
that the nation is taking earnest steps toward jihad against the
United States. This is the duty of all Muslims, as I
said.
[Isma'il] World news media spoke about US
support for Afghan jihad against the Soviet Union, and you took part in this
jihad personally and with your funds. The media also said that you were in
contact with the CIA and that the agency used to finance your activities and
back you in the jihad against the Soviet Union. How true are these
claims and your link with the United States at that
time?
[Bin Ladin] It is an attempt at distortion by
the Americans. Praised be God for turning their plots against them. Every grown
up Muslim hates Americans, Jews, and Christians. It is part of our
belief and religion. Since I was a boy I have been at war with and
harboring hatred for the Americans. What they are saying did not
occur at all. Regarding their support for the jihad or fighting,
that support was actually from the Arab states, especially the Gulf states, for
Pakistan in order to back the jihad. That support was not for the
sake of God, but out of fear of their thrones from the Russian
advance. Carter, who was US president at the time, did not utter a
single word until 1399 [Hegira], corresponding to 20 January [no year given],
when he said that any Russian penetration into the Gulf region would be
considered an aggression against the United States. Since he
occupied that region and its oil sources, he said that he would use military
face if this penetration took place.
The Americans
are lying in their claim that they cooperated with us at any time. We challenge
them to produce any evidence. In fact, they were a burden on the
mujahidin and us in Afghanistan. There was no agreement. We were just
performing a duty to support Islam in Afghanistan, although this duty crossed
with US interests without our consent. When the Muslims fought the
Romans, it was known that Romans and Persians were always at war. But, no
sensible person could say that the Muslims fought the Romans in Mu'tah Battle
because they were agents for the Persians. Only the interests crossed one
another. The Muslims fought the Romans as part of their duty. Still, this
pleased the Persians. But, once they finished with the Romans, the Muslims
turned against the Persians. The crossing of interests without an
agreement does not mean any link or subservience. We have been
against them since those days. God be praised, we delivered lectures in Hijaz
and Najd on the need to boycott US goods and strike at US forces and the US
economy 12 years ago.
[Isma'il] Arab and world news
media carried reports about activities by your followers or supporters in some
Arab states, including Yemen for example. How true are these
reports?
[Bin Ladin] We are linked to the whole
Islamic World. This includes Yemen, Pakistan, and others. We are part of a single nation. God be praised,
those who are convinced of and enthusiastic about jihad are increasing in number
every day. We have supporters in Yemen and elsewhere. We have old
and strong ties with Yemen, God be praised. Besides, our roots go back to
Yemen.
[Isma'il] How do you describe your relations
with other Islamic organizations in the Arab World? And what is the
true stand of the Islamic Jama'ah vis-a-vis the World Islamic Front and has it
withdrawn from this front?
[Bin Ladin] God be praised,
our relations with the Islamic Jama'ah in the Islamic Wold are good. We
cooperate with them through piety and godliness for the sake of this
religion.
We call upon Muslims, especially those who
work for Islam, to rise above secondary issues. Unfortunately, the satans,
especially the crusaders, have managed to preoccupy the states and the small
groups in them with regional problems. Thus, you find that Egypt has
problems with Libya and Saudi Arabia with Yemen. The groups also
face problems, while the great infidelity, the US-crusader alliance mutilates
the Islamic World and cancels the decisions of the Muslims in an unprecedented
manner. What is the second part of the
question?
[Isma'il] The Islamic Jama'ah in Egypt and
whether it has withdrawn from the World Islamic Front?
[Bin Ladin] We have strong ties with the Jama'ah since the days of the jihad. We
used to fight in the same trenches against the Soviet Union. They maintained an
honorable and supportive stand by signing the fatwa that calls for spilling the
blood of the Americans and the Jews. They signed the fatwa, but
there was confusion on an administrative matter pertaining to the issuance of
the fatwa. The issuance of the fatwa coincided with the date of the
establishment of the front. So people were confused that the Islamic
Jama'ah was part of the Islamic Front. So the jama'ah was compelled to explain
its position. It signed the fatwa, but it is not part of the World
Islamic Front.
[Isma'ila] What are the final aims
that you have set for yourselves, and what is the message you want to address to
the Arab World and Islamic World in general?
[Bin
Ladin] God be praised. As I said, we firmly believe [sentence incomplete]. I am
saying this due to the strong campaign by the regimes and the media against
us. They want to deprive us of our manhood. We believe that we are
men, Muslim men who must defend the greatest place in existence, the Holy
Ka'aba. We want to have the honor of defending it. We do not want
American women soldiers, including American, Jewish, and Christian women
soldiers defending the grandchildren of [Muslim leaders] Sa'd, Al-Muthanna,
Abubakr, and Omar. Had God not honored us with Islam, our
grandfathers in the pre-Islamic [jahiliyah] period would have rejected the
arrival of these women and red infidels under such claim. This claim
no longer deceives even children.
The rulers in that
region said that the Americans came only for a few months. They lied at the
beginning and at the end. Our prophet, may the peace and blessings
of God be upon him, said that three men would not be seen by God on the Day of
Judgment. One of them, he said, is a liar king. The months passed
and then the first and second year. We are now in the ninth year
while the Americans are telling lies to everyone, saying we have interests in
this region and we will not move out until we are reassured of them.
An enemy enters and steals your money. You tell him, you are stealing. But, he
says, no this is my interest. They deceive us with
words.
The rulers in that region have been deprived of
their manhood. And they think that the people are women. By God,
Muslim women refuse to be defended by these American and Jewish
prostitutes.
Our aim is to work according to God's
shari'ah and to defend the Holy Ka'aba, this great and ancient
house. God has made the existence of mankind on this land based on
the belief of the one God through worship, and the highest form of worship after
faith is prayer. As the traditions of the prophet say, prayer is the
backbone and jihad its apex.
God Almighty would not
accept our prayer if we did not face in the direction of the Ka'aba.
God chose for this holy place the noblest of people, the father of the prophets,
Ibrahim, may peace be upon him, -- after our prophet, may peace be upon him --
and his son Isma'il. Our aim is to liberate the land of Islam from infidelity
and to apply God's shari'ah until we meet with Him and gain his
pleasure.
All those brothers are still waiting for an
improvement in conditions before taking any serious action. The
Americans have tried to bribe us into silence. The United States and
some of its agents in the region have tried to bribe me into silence more than
10 times. They said, keep silent and we will give you back your passport, funds,
and identity card, but keep silent. They think that people live in
this world for the sake of worldly things. They forgot that there is
no meaning to our existence if we did not strive to gain God's
pleasure.
This chart shows the density of population
according to age. Children from birth to 11 years constitute the
largest sector in Muslim societies. The nation would depend on them for the next
60 to 70 years. In this age, the sector that wants to make
sacrifices for the sake of religion, especially, Jihad, is fed up.
As we know, a person between birth and the age of 15 is not duty bound for jihad
and not fully aware of its demands. And 25 years onward, a person
will have been involved in family obligations. He will also have graduated and
become committed to duties toward his job, wife, and children. He becomes
mentally mature, but his ability to make sacrifices becomes weak. He
would say, where do I leave the family and who would spend on
them?
But, if we thoroughly examined the issue, we
will find that the sector between 15 and 25 years is the one that has ability
for jihad and sacrifice. This was what we observed in the jihad in
Afghanistan. Most mujahidin were from this age. When the Americans
came in the month of Muharram 1411 hegira, the young ones were not aware of the
event. Unfortunately, fatwas were issued by the state. The Gulf
states helped in pressuring the state into issuing these fatwas.
They claimed that they would be temporary. Some ulema that we
trusted, such as Muhammad Bin-Salih al-Uthaymi, told us in his council and
residence: We did not issue any fatwa. But, when the state introduced the
Americans, they gathered us and said we must issue a fatwa; otherwise the youths
would fight the American forces.
I spoke with him at
length on the need for the Council of Senior Ulema to issue a fatwa on the
eviction of the Americans. He told me very clearly, and may God be
my witness: Usama, it is not our right in the Council of Senior Ulema to issue a
fatwa out of own free will. But, if it is referred to us by the
highest authority, as he said, we will issue it. This is our
situation, very unfortunately.
When the people
remained silent, no one knew about this sector from 15 to 25 years.
Nine years have passed since the invasion. This entire sector,
except those who are 16 years old, arrived here. Their age is now 34
years. They entered into the sector that matured mentally and could
no longer make sacrifices. And with regard to the young sector that can make
sacrifices now, nothing is done to prepare the situation for them. If we kept
silent, our situation would be like that existed in Andalusia. Some
10 years would pass and the mentality would then gradually become
indolent.
This is serious. People must do all they can
to rouse the nation with all the means in their power; with their tongues, pens,
and persons. With the grace of God, we performed our duty and we
continue in this duty until we meet God Almighty. Finally, I would
like to advise all Muslims that they should read the Holy Book. It is the one
that salvaged us from the rotten backwardness [jahiliyah] in those dark ages.
Our remedy is in the Holy Book and the prophet's traditions. When
one reads the Koran, he wonders why many people are reneging. Don't they read
the Koran, or do they read it, but not ponder it?
God
says: "Ye believers take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and
protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst
you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a
people unjust" [Holy Koran]. He is of them, meaning that he becomes
infidel like them. God says in the next verse: "Those in
whose ears is a disease -- thou seest how early they run about among them,
saying: we do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster. Ah! perhaps God
will give (thee) victory, or a decision to His will. Then they will repent of
the thoughts which they secretly harbored in their
hearts."
I hope that my brother Muslims would read the
Koran and also read the interpretation of these verses. There are
many verses in the Holy Book where God warns us against loyalty to
infidels. They should read the "Interpretation" by Ibn-Kathir and
"The Abridged Interpretation" by Shaykh Muhammad Muslim al-Rifa'i. I
say that the world is unanimous on devouring the Islamic World. The crusader
world is unanimous on devouring us. The nations have been called up
against us. God Almighty taught us how to reply to those who make
excuses in order to delay the jihad. God says: "When (at length) the order for
fighting was issued to them, behold a section of them feared men as -- or even
more than -- they should have feared God. They said: Our Lord! Why
hast Thou ordered us to Fight? Wouldst Thou not grant us respite to our
(natural) term, near (enough)? Say: Short is the enjoyment of this
world: The hereafter is the best for those who do right.
Never will ye be dealt unjustly in the very least!"
Whoever believes that the enjoyment of this world is short and the Hereafter is
best and more lasting, then he is the one who will respond to God's
order.
In the previous verse which says "ye believers
take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors,"
Ibn-Kathis, May God rest his soul in peace, explains that the Muslims discovered
the hypocrites the day they defended and supported the Baynuqa Jewish
tribe. Today, the Arab rulers are openly loyal to Jews and
Christians and people are praising the enemies of Islam and Muslims, God
forbid! There must be a serious and sincere pause from which we seek
God's mercy. "For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of
deception." [Koranic verse]
Every Muslim who can
volunteer, should do so and inquire about the places of jihad and preparation so
he would meet God's pleasure.
I rouse the faithful and
myself after all these great disasters by citing the poet who says: "Get ready
for struggle for matters have gone beyond sweet words. I will dress up and
defend the nation with the edges of spearheads and swords. Do you abandon us
when the many infidel wolves gnaw at our flesh? The infidel wolves are turning
evil men against us from all parts of the world. Where are the free men from
among our co-religionists to defend women with weapons. Death is better than
humiliated life, as shame cannot be erased."
I pray
to God Almighty to help Muslims return to their religion and to grant victory to
the youths who went out for jihad for his sake and pleasure. O God! Give us
patience, strengthen our position, and give us victory over the infidels. O God,
who runs clouds, reveals the Book, and vanquishes enemies, vanquish them and
give us victory over them. O God give us grace in this world and in the
Hereafter and save us from hell. O God give us victory over the Americans,
Israel and their supporters, for You are capable of everything. Finally, praise
to God Almighty.
[Announcer: Al-Jazirah Channel is not
responsible for what came in this interview. All that Usama Bin ladin said
expressed his personal viewpoints]
[Description of Source: Doha
Al-Jazirah Satellite Channel Television in Arabic -- Independent Television
station financed by the Qatari Government]
BA Hons. Political Science & International Relations Universidade
Nova de Lisboa
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