Fw: New comments on your opinions (formerly Comments and Proposals for A

The following is a continued discussion between Paul Reiz and marguerite
which was formerly entitled 'Comments and Proposals for Action' and has
been cross-posted to several lists.  Comments along with further
discussion and insights are invited.  

-------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Paul Riesz <priesz@netline.cl>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:28:30 -0400
Subject: New comments on your opinions
Message-ID: <3B656F0D.59FE467E@netline.cl>

MH:  Paul, thank you for your questions and insights as you see them.

Note:  Paul's questions and comments initially have mainly to do with
'need for new form of governance' to address our changing times,
particularly as it regards the laborforce but as well the environment.  

You wrote:  

To Marguerite:
I should like to comment on some of your latest opinions:

1. You say:
“MH:  Paul, you are right --  a new system of government does have to
invented to address this.  But, so what?  Is the system of government we
currently have addressing critical issues?  I think not.”

P'R: It seems to me that before predicting a world without work, you
should
tell us how such a government would work and  - more importantly – how
we could ensure that such a government does take over in fact.

MH:  Paul, we're in the process of discovery of what the future looks
like and it is relatively unknown except for some things which I will
attempt to answer below.  But what we are seeing now is the breakdown of
the old form of government which is unable to withstand the stress of the
forced changes being brought about by global warming with its
accompanying climate changes and by the rapid advancement of technology. 
We are seeing a fragmenting of society worldwide as jobs are lost due to
these technological advances which coupled with the unprecedented
devastation of the environment, is forcing  people  to migrate in ever
increasing numbers in search of jobs (or land) with which to feed and
shelter themselves and their families.  The U.N. has called this the
human crises of our day.  

The resultant chaos thusly created has made it easier for organized crime
and the elites to move in and take over as the millions of dollars paid
out by these elements is ever more appealing to those who otherwise face
bleak futures with no jobs, or jobs that do not pay a living wage. The
trillions of dollars that float outside of the organized economy is but
evidence of the magnitude of the problem as people from the highest level
of government down to the lowliest worker seek to ensure their continued
financial well-being by becoming involved in these illegal activities
that go on outside of the organized system, yet offer some sort of
stability for those who otherwise will join the one billion persons who
have been disenfranchised from the laborforce.   

While this figure is unverified, it is rumored that one particular family
or cartel alone may employ as many as 25 million people. It is obvious
that we have become so dependent upon organized crime to keep our
economies afloat that without it they would collapse   And there are
thousands of crime groups worldwide, as told by Martin Booth in 'The
Dragon Syndicates,' as he reveals as many as 1200 groups in Russia alone.
 The total number of people involved there may number 100,000.  J.
Robinson reveals in his book, 'The Merger'  that organized crime families
and cartels have now merged to ensure their continued profitability thru
united effort.  Since organized crime crosses borders there is no police
force capable of dealing with their activities.  With unlimited funds
under their control the syndicates have become better armed, both with
computer surveilance equipment and tactical weapons, than the policing
forces worldwide.             

Their illegal activities range from drug dealing to sophisticated
computer hacking of TNCs for ransom to arms dealing, including that of
nuclear weapons.  The amount of money involved is said to exceed that of
the military industrial complex today.   These illegal activities serve
largely to support the control of the elites or power brokers and of
course, governments have sought to control populations thru the use of
drugs for centuries.  So the cartels are very much associated with
activities not only to generate money, but are designed to keep the
masses quiet.  Several authors, including, Martin Booth, and Jim Marrs in
their books, (as noted elsewhere) and Jeffrey Robinson, (author of
'Mergers,' the conglomeration of organized crime) have detailed how the
CIA has interacted with organized crime in drug trafficing.  Booth tells
how the CIA brought heroin into the U.S. in body bags during the
Vietnamese War.  Many feel this was done in an effort to quell the
rebellion of the people that was fomenting at that time in the U.S.     

On the other hand you have the actions of the so-called 'legal entities'
-- the TNCs -- whose CEOs and upper management personnel, with their high
paying salaries, are referred to as the sub-elites acting under the
direction of the elites.  The elites are those, consisting mainly of
Europeans of *old money* and Americans who are descendents of the old
monied elite or are associated in some way with old money, and who
control 51% of the world's wealth, and therefore largely direct worldwide
investment policies.  The center for control for the elites is now 'K'
Street in Washington, D.C. where lobbyists, funded by the TNCs, are paid
on average $1 million annually to ensure that the U.S. Congress acts in
the best interests of the elites. The elites also exert control worldwide
thru the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg, and the very powerful
Council for Foreign Relations, along with the Royal Institute of
International Affairs, headquartered in the U.K.  President John F.
Kennedy noted that the families associated with these organizations kept
cropping up in high places such as the CIA and other government agencies.
 (Marrs - 2001) 

The so-called democratic form of government which we have today is
revealed as a myth when one looks closely at who holds the money reins
and how power (via goverment positions) is chosen thru manipulation and
is not, as publicly thought, elected.  This pseudo-democracy has served
only to line the pockets of the already wealthy and not as a share the
wealth institution for the benefit of the people.  It has gone on in the
U.S. since the time of the execution of the Constitution and has been
influenced by Freemasons, many of whom became presidents of the U.S.     

It is these 'old money' interests who also control the banking and
financial system.  In 'Rule by Secrecy' Jim Marrs writes: 
'Money--whether a piece of paper or a figure on a computer screen--is
intrinsically worthless, yet it fuels the modern world.  The trappings of
money and banking have been compared to those of a religion, yet only
those who profit from it understand the inner workings of the money cult.
 And they work to keep it that way.'

Marrs goes on to detail how money came about he writes: 'Added to the
fractional banking was the concept of 'fiat' money--intrinsically
worthless paper money made acceptable by law or decree of government.  An
early example of this system was recorded by Marco Polo during his visit
to China in 1275.  Polo noted the emperor forced his people to accept
black pieces of paper with an official seal on them as legal money under
pain of imprisonment or death.  The emperor then used this fiat money to
pay all of his own debts.'  

(I know Walt Plinge will appreciate the above.)

The 'elites' operate legally and as Bucky Fuller reveals in 'Critical
Path' set about thru LAWCAPS (lawyer capitalists) to enact laws and set
up treaties as a system thru which to conduct their affairs and largely
without the public's knowledge. The Federal Reserve System of the U.S.
was one such legally enacted enterprise.  GATT and NAFTA were others
along with the WTO, IMF, and World Bank.  Tax havens to shelter the
corporations and launder money from organized crime activities into the
system were also devised by the LAWCAPS.  

It is interesting to note that the Dragon Syndicates of China, or the
Triads, as revealed by Martin Booth, still use this system in the conduct
of their illegal activities.  Booth also writes that the Triads have been
around for so many centuries that their activities are now an accepted
part of Chinese society.      

All of this seems to dictate that a new form of government is in order. 
But I would like to note here that it is not just the government that is
in a state of decay, it is our educational systems, our work systems,
financial systems, religious systems, etc. that are buckling under the
stress of our ever-changing times and the system of
capitalist/industrial/consumer society coupled with unlimited free trade.
  

PR: 2. “MH: It is not, Paul, a fact that there would be a lot of time on
people's hands.”

PR: You tell us about many ways of using the newly available time
productively, all of them quite positive activities. What you do NOT
take into account, that many (if not most) people might prefer the very
negative alternatives I mentioned.

Note:  Paul is writing here in reference to my previous post on reduction
in workforce due to technilogical advances which requires workweek be
reduced to approx. 20 hours in order for all to be employed and obtaining
a 'living wage.'    

MH:  Paul, I am aware that many will prefer the negative alternatives
mentioned -- there are too many who would rather stay within their
comfort zone because change is to uncomfortable to contemplate even
though the future of humanity is at stake.  We are creatures of habit and
many operate with closed minds.  Which is why a few people have managed
to take control of the many.  It is for this reason that I feel we have
little hope, but I still do not feel that that should keep those of us
who see the light from trying.  

PR: 3. MH: I also do not believe we have time to try to reform the WTO.
What I feel must be done is to begin an 'alternative economy' in which
renewable energy takes front and center as do building sustainable
living communities.”1

PR: While reforming the WTO would have almost immediate effects, building
the alternative economy you are promoting might take a very long time.
This does not mean that such efforts should be abandoned, quite on the
contrary we should do what we can to promote them wherever we can, but
we must certainly make equally great efforts to stop the current drive
for worldwide domination of TNC’s

MH:  Given the stranglehold of the elites, of which the WTO is but an
agency thru which to exert control, I do not see that there is a great
deal of hope of changing policy there or of reigning in the IMF anytime
soon. That is, unless we are able to gather together a large enough
contingency of people who can exert influence in the marketplace.  I do
believe that the only thing that influences the power brokers is money or
lack thereof.  If their income stream is threatened via consumer revolt
they will be forced to pay attention and take actions to alleviate
pressure brought about by the people.  However, this will still only be a
compromise.      

I use to feel that we could influence government by appealing to their
'fair sense of responsibility.'  That was at a time when I was very naive
as to the nature of the government and how it largely serves the power
brokers who actually run the world.  I was sure that 'they' would change
their tune as the threat of 'global warming' worsened.  If there was any
measure of naivete left it disappeared with the sacking of the Kyoto
Protocol and with Bush announcing that he would do nothing which would
jeopardize the U.S. economy.  For, of course, as I understand now, to
jeopardize the economy of the U.S. is to jeopardize the power brokers and
their income stream. 

The form of government which supports the
capitalist/industrial/consumer-based society and is reliant upon free
trade, serves well to transfer money from the middle class and the
poverty-stricken to the elities or power brokers, as I have referred to
them here. Free trade is necessary for the continued rape of the
developing countries to ensure that there is free access to the resources
there including labor at cheap rates. The capitalist/industrial/consumer
society is largely based today on fossil fuel and the automobile powered
by the combustion engine.  It has also become dependent upon war, which
uses astonishing amounts of the world's resources, in its battles which
not only use up considerable scarce resources but destroy ecosystems as
well. 

This capitalist/industrial/consumer-based society, as it has been
'molded' in the past 50 years, is extremely efficient in its use of
natural resources and serves to 'strip-mine' the Earth at ever
accelerating rates.  The majority of these resources lie in the
developing world. In its efficiency of use,
capitalist/industrial/consumer society  has also become prolific at
generating waste.   

An alternative society and form of governmemt must be directed toward
reducing waste.  It must also be directed not toward 'development' but
toward sustainable living.  It was from Paul Hawken in his book, 'The
Ecology of Commerce' in which he wrote that business was the only thing
strong enough to turn this thing around, that I first encountered the
idea of 'voting one's dollars in the marketplace' for products and
services that lead to sustainable living.  I have yet to read anything
that counters this to any sensible degree. 

Without the consumer society, the capital/industrialist is out of
business .  With the capital/industrialist in control the end of life on
Earth today is in sight.

PR: 4. You later say:
“MH: My question here, Paul, is: are there enough representatives of the
Third World countries left who have not become corrupted by either the
elites or organized crime to formulate a reform program?”

PR: You are pointing out a real problem, but not an insuperable one. My
proposal to shift from street protests to positive actions, would
certainly include doing what is necessary to ensure that representatives
to the governing body of the WTO toe the correct line or face unpleasant
consequences.

MH:  Paul, as I've pointed out above, it appears that the only thing that
is going to bring the WTO into line is to so disrupt the markets, by
consumers voting their dollars in the marketplace, such as to gain the
attention of the power brokers.   

'They' may, in the interim, and thru negotiation, make small concessions
as to fool us into thinking they are heeding our calls for more fair
practices, but in the long run their greed will continue to set policies
that will inevitably destroy us all if we do not act to surplant this
control by the few of the many.  

This requires a good deal of faith on our part to do the 'right thing.' 
The reign of 'oil as king' along with the 'old boys network' that it has
created must end.  We can create an alternative economy based in the use
of renewable energy and sustainable living.  We do have a choice -- will
we make the right one in time to save humanity or will we become known as
'the failed experiment?'  Only time will tell.  

The greatest fear that I have is that the media control has so polluted
the minds of the masses as to make many incapable of rendering an
intelligent decision.  It as though we have become totally mesmerized by
shopping, entertainment, sports, news magazines, video games, etc. things
that keep us from paying attention to what is happening with our life
support system and to our freedoms.  We largely live without accepting
any responsibility for what goes on in the world today and have turned it
over to 'others' to manage.   

There is a movement building, of which we are all a part here, but can we
move forward quickly enough to overcome the inertia brought about by the
media?  That is the question of the day.         

marguerite          

Cordial greetings              Paul