Re: Contradictions of an election in an imperialist country

While Alan and Steve may be correct in the abstract their arguments fall
on deaf ears. Unless Americans are dying in foreign wars I would expect
that the majority of Americans are little interested in Iraq's people, or
Haitian people's or anybody else other than those who live in their town
or immediate neighborhood. Alas, this is the American psyche according to
Tocqueville. Provincal is the word. This raise the question of how to do
what Steve and Alan want. In the 1930s and earlier labor organizers could
mobilize popular consciousness by organizing factory workers and employing
concepts of fairness to sell their platforms - same in the present on a
global scale. There are many platforms on which to organize these
days. Why are not more people listening? 
        For all its faults the Democratic party has a well developed cadre
of organizers, and money to back them up. What do we have? (This is not to
defend them by the way - merely a logistical point). Both parties have the
legal machinery of the State locked up. How do we break that hold? And
what do we have to offer those women in this country who say to us that
they are legitmately afraid that a Bush administration will set women's
rights back? To use the argument that Gore is just as bad is simply not
true and will be dismissed outright by those we are trying to
reach. Perhaps Nader was a small baby step in the right direction.
        I believe what is needed is party building AND direct
action. Developing alternative social organizations and institutions AND
working with the present legal structure. Developing sources of revenue
AND holding officals accountable for their decisions (And how do we do
that?). What I am saying is that all of these theories of Steve and Alan
are fine but they are so much hot air to the masses who want pragmatic
results for their efforts. Without results there is no motivation. Without
motivation there is no direction. And without direction there is no
focus. Without focus there is only hot air. I would suggest we work with
the Democratic party where we can and you keep pursuing our agenda
inside and outside the party. That means also moving between the
Democrats and a third party structure - maintaining flexibility. A
struggle on all fronts. Purism is the quickest way to defeat.

Talmadge  



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* Talmadge Wright                               (773) 508-3451 *
* Dept. of Sociology/Anthropology           FAX:(773) 508-7099 *
* Loyola University Chicago                                    *
* 6525 N. Sheridan Rd.                                         *
* Chicago, Illinois 60626                                      *
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On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, Alan Spector wrote:

> Many of the half million people killed by U.S. developed sanctions against
> Iraq are also women. A vote for Gore or Bush is a vote to continue the
> sanctions and a general imperialist foreign policy that kills and enslaves
> tens of millions every year.  It might be argued that Bush would continue
> the sanctions anyhow, but at least Gore would presumably defend Roe v. Wade.
> But voting for Gore does undermine the ability to build an independent
> grassroots movement. Every four years, there will ALWAYS be another crisis
> "just this one last time we have to support the Democrats"--this has and
> will happen again and again. The only way to stop the mass genocide of
> imperialism is to build an anti-capitalist movement. Voting for capitalist
> politicians undermines this.
> 
> Alan Spector
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judi Kessler" <jukessle@weber.ucsd.edu>
> To: "Steve Rosenthal" <smrose@mailhub.exis.net>
> Cc: <PSN@csf.colorado.edu>; <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Contradictions of an election in an imperialist country
> 
> 
> > All true, but the alternative - and we really only have two options -
> > would be much worse.
> > Whatever our political ideologies might be, the reality is, we live in a
> > capitalist nation and our choices are limited to Gore/L. or Bush/C. Some
> > of the Jewish and Haitian voters are also women, and most women don't want
> > to see a new Supreme Court overturn Roe vs Wade.
> > I don't see a contradiction - only pragmatism.
> > Judi Kessler
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, Steve Rosenthal wrote:
> >
> > > In Florida disenfranchised Jewish voters demand that their votes for
> > > Gore and Lieberman be counted, yet Gore and Lieberman are strong
> > > supporters of Israeli oppression of Palestinians.
> > >
> > > Disenfranchised Haitian American voters also demand that their votes
> > > for Gore and Lieberman be counted, although the Clinton-Gore
> > > administration supported the 1991 coup against Aristide, supported
> > > the coup government that murdered thousands of Haitians, and only
> > > agreed to return Aristide to Haiti after he promised to abandon his
> > > reform efforts and instead to impose structural adjustment on the
> > > Haitian people.
> > >
> > > Neither Palestinians nor Haitians who have been victims of US
> > > imperialism and its client regimes for many decades had any
> > > opportunity to vote in this election.
> > >
> > > Vietnamese Americans voted in the U.S. presidential election, but
> > > Pres. Bill Clinton arrives in Vietnam today to promote US investment
> > > and trade with a country in which the US imperialism killed some
> > > three million people during a quarter century of war.  Both Democrats
> > > and Republicans have yet to be called to account for that crime
> > > against humanity.
> > >
> > > These are some of the contradictions of elections held by the ruling
> > > class of an imperialist country.
> > >
> > > Steve Rosenthal
> > >
> >
>