Re: Agression, other crimes & Pat Gunning

I sincerely hope that Pat is kidding withm his tounge in his mouth
about what he writes on 'disciplinary action'  and the course of events, 
since all of what he writes is totally contary to real world events.
And  we perhaps agree at least that that is the real/world issue. But it
ismnnot the issue we were disputing about, for that was about the
LEGALITY or not of these real world events. On that score, Pat zseems to 
have retreated, sicne he no longer mentioins it. he asedk for a
defincition of agression and he got it, and calling what NATO is doing
prescision/disciplinary etc. does not make it any the less agfression or 
illegal, not to mention the 'collateral' damage of bombing chemical
and oil plants, schools, refugees,, bridges, and on and on.
It will not do to simply dismiss the law on the grounds that  might is
right and there is no might to enforce the law. there are many reasos why
this will not do, but let me mention only two. 1. the law is stil the best
protection we got against the violation of what the law protects. 
and 2, if we disregard/destroy it, then anyone can and may 'take the law
into their hands' and that includes the US, Russia and others with
nuclear weapons. This is not idel speculation. Why do ALL Russians
feel so threatened by this NATO action and would even more so by ground
troops? Waht does Pat thinnk is going one there? An efforct to protect
some ethnic Alabanians, or to get Milosevic to behave differently? You
must be kidding. A few million dollars would have done that, not several
billion spent on a war. So if Pat or others would at least consider the
legality issue, they would also get a different perspective on what is
going on. At the very least they could not beleve the PROPAGANDA war
that is making poor Goebbels turn in his grave as a piker.OK
 you just proviked me to  post another on on WSN, before I go to hell
to get comfy.
agf

..On Wed, 21 Apr
1999, Pat Gunning wrote:

> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:37:13 +0400
> From: Pat Gunning <jgunning@squ.edu.om>
> To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK <wsn@csf.colorado.edu>
> Subject: Re: Agression, other crimes & Pat Gunning
> 
> Gunder Frank wrote:
> 
> 
> > by NATO's unprovoked, non-defensive=agressive  massive bombing and guided
> > missiles, AND i metnioned  another dozen other statutes the US/NATO
> > states have signed and now violate.
> > 
> > But since you ask for a 'definition of agression', here are some
> > also formally subscribed to by the states in NATO:
> > 
> > NATO's attack on Yugoslavia is a violation of the Kellogg-Briand Pact,
> > the Pact of Paris, of 1928. The signatories to the pact (including what
> > were to become the the NATO countries) "condemned recourse to war for
> > the solution of international controversies, and renounced it as an
> > instrument of national policy."
> 
> Your reasoning assumes that the action in Yugoslavia is a war. It seems
> to me that, press jargon notwithstanding, if it was really a war, it
> would have been over in one day and Belgrade would look like Nagasaki.
> 
> Why not regard the precision bombing as a disciplinary action? NATO had
> reason to believe that the Serbs would commit atrocities in Kosovo and
> wanted to assure that they would not by sending observers. Milosovic
> said no. So NATO sought an agreement between the Serbs and the KLA that
> would make atrocities more difficult. Milosovic again said not. So NATO
> started to punish him. When Milosovic answered by committing atrocities,
> the rationale for the action changed. Moreover, the ultimate goal
> changed from one of forcing Milosovic to be more transparent to that of
> stopping the atrocities themselves and, more importantly, to deterring
> future atrocities by other aggressors by means of punishing the war
> criminals. Ultimately, everybody knows that unless Milosovic relents,
> ground troops will be sent in and, assuming they are successful, at
> least some of the Kosovars will be returned to their homeland. It is
> also becoming evident that Milsovic himself will be punished if NATO can
> catch him.
> 
> -- 
> Pat Gunning, Sultan Qaboos University, Oman
> Web pages on Subjectivism, Democracy, Taiwan, Ludwig von Mises,
> Austrian Economics, and my University Classes
> http://www2.cybercities.com/g/gunning/welcome.htm
> http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/barclay/212/welcome.htm
> 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                   ANDRE GUNDER FRANK
250 Kensington Ave - Apt 608     Tel: 1-514-933 2539    
Westmount/Montreal PQ/QC         Fax: 1-514-933 6445 
Canada H3Z 2G8              e-mail:agfrank@chass.utoronto.ca 

My Personal/Professional Home Page> http://www.whc.neu.edu/gunder.html
My NATO/Kosovo Page> http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/agfrank/nato_kosovo/       
My professional/personal conclusion is the same as Pogo's - 
            We have met the enemy, and it is US 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~