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Re: Your comments on "Does Hubbert Peak Bode Ill for World
by Tim Jones
07 December 2003 21:32 UTC
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Dear Charles,

Thanks for the criticism.

Well, this does take a bit of unpacking...
I'll say. Sometimes comments presuppose so much
understanding I just give up trying to decode the

Another point is that the subject line becomes irrelevant
and no longer reflects the content of the message and
I waste a lot of time trying to parse the language for
some real insight into the original meaning.

These items posted to an archived list then become
misleading and the archive of increasingly marginal

Really, might we not ask just a bit more consideration
for 'readability' on a list that goes out people of various
backgrounds and interests?
Many of the arcane and incomprehensible comparative
"ist" and "ism" generalities sown into the texts of some of
these missives seem more to attempt to communicate the
writers' academic merit within the intelligentsia than to
communicate anything clearly.


At 6:56 PM -0800 12/05/2003, Charles Jannuzi wrote:

On the question of ecological disaster. I have
noticed a tendency in certain kinds of dogmatic
Marxism to assert that capitalism will
always find substitutes for whatever. In a sense this
is true. It also undermines the sort of "second
contradiction" millenarianism of O'Connor. It doesn't
matter if the planet goes to shit. As long as
the stock markets function and as long as there are
getaways like St. Barts, I doubt that the big
bourgeoisie will care very much.<<

Well, this does take a bit of unpacking (like most of
what Louis writes). Louis's definition of 'dogmatic
Marxmism' seems to be any brand of it that doesn't
coincide with what a handful of ex-SWPers daily post
on Marxmail list. In other words, if you dare to
disagree with Louis and his pals from the 70s, you
will be called 'ultraleftist plotter' or worse

Next LP writes:
It seems to me that the challenge facing socialism
(is that a dirty word here?) is to present a clear
alternative to capitalism. To be taken seriously by
scientists, you have to address the question of
ecological sustainability. On the Marxism list, a
couple of subscribers mentioned that the planet can
sustain about 2 billion people. If you mention that in
some quarters, you get called "Malthusian".<<

Well what you might get asked instead is, Then how in
the heck did the planet get to triple that population,
with most of that population living outside the the
most develoved forms of consumerist, industrial
society? BTW, I actually found Malthus a better read
than some of the stuff I saw on Marxmal list.

LP again:

It is not Malthusian to understand that we are
rapidly approaching the point where industrial society
as it is presently constituted cannot continue,
whether under private or public ownership of the means
of production.<<

But having discussions about it does not really make
capital somehow capable of responding to any situation
besides its own artificial shortages. Look at the
current high price of oil. Does it reflect some sort
of megaconsciousness on the part of capital concerning
a looming peak of production? No, they are concerned
with how to have a sustained high price of oil,
trending somewhat upward (or somewhat downward,
depending on how they've hedged) while growing
profits. Look at the industry's profits before the war
against Iraq, and after the war against Iraq, and you
will see they are doing very well.

We have to reintegrate the town and the country, as
the Communist Manifesto called for. Energy, water and
soil have to be carefully husbanded. Wildlife must be
protected. There can be a better future,but
Julian Simon type bromides from either the capitalist
intelligentsia like Gregg Easterbrook or "Marxists"
have to be rejected.<<

One might think this a bromide of some sort, but you
need a more easy to swallow form than the 'Julian
Simon type bromides from either capitalist
intelligentsia like Gregg Easterbrook or "Marxists"
have to be rejected"' pill. Really, might we not ask
just a bit more consideration for 'readability' on a
list that goes out people of various backgrounds and

Charles Jannuzi
University of Fukui, Japan



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