Re: globalization

you write below

 In my opinion, it does not really matter if globalisation has been
present for 150 years, 500 years, 5000 years or Neolithic ages.

Barry Gills & I have in our contrtibution to our 500 or 5,000 year book
been very explicit about  that great difference it does make. Consider
only to begin with the Marx to Wallerstein claim that  continuoous capital
accumulation is the sine qua non differencia especifica between capitalism
and all else. You cannot have it both ways, that capitalism and hence
capital accumulation is only 200 [Wolf] or 500 [Wallerstein] or 7-800
[Bruadel] years old, AND that accumulation is 5,000 or other large number
of years old. To keep the faith, some have therefore attributed to us the
theis that capitalism is 5,000 years old. But of course any such claim
wold make NONsense of "capitalism", which would be rendered as NOT
differnt from anything else since the neolithic. Of coure that is NOT our
position. On the contrary, we are forced bby thde evidence and the logic
of the argument to tbe conclusion that ''capitalism'' is an ideological
category wihout any distinguishing historical empiricaal
content. Therefore, best cut the gordina knot and free ouselves from the
shackles that this concept imposes on oour analysis - blinders as on a
jhorse, that prevent us from seeing all reality as it reallly is, both the
reality outside the blinder and alas also the realith inside the blinders,
whch is mistaken for something special thaat it is not. 

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 tacer@alumni.bilkent.edu.tr wrote:

> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:56:49 EEST
> From: tacer@alumni.bilkent.edu.tr
> To: Luke Rondinaro <larondin@yahoo.com>, wsn@csf.colorado.edu
> Cc: franka@fiu.edu
> Subject: Re: globalization
> 
> Even if our globalization is 5000 years old, we must admit that she has grown 
>up quite fast for last hundred years. From my point of view, the unchanging 
>parts of the story are brief: First, core-periphery relationship and dynamics 
>of horizontal dependency: For several millennia, allocation of resources had 
>not been evenly distributed among continents and as properly stated, the Fall 
>of the East preceded the Rise of the West. Illustrations of this situation are 
>abundant in historical materials. Secondly, global trade is a meta-chronic 
>reality of societies; there has always been - there will always be. By means 
>of trans-continental trade routes, Globalisation always existed. Nevertheless, 
>those similarities, do the really suffice to draw the boundaries of the term 
>itself? I am in doubt… 
> 
> Please do not take offence, for I do not refer to forum discussions here but 
>general discursive climate of World-System theory. There is an infertile 
>discussion among world-systems scholars on the beginnings of world-system 
>chronology. In my opinion, it does not really matter if globalisation has been 
>present for 150 years, 500 years, 5000 years or Neolithic ages. This issue 
>itself does not need to be auctioned and if we step backwards any further in 
>the history, we might find ourselves discussing “the global challenge of T-rex 
>and Brontosaurus” – for what reason? Does it help us to understand the essence 
>of capital accumulation process more fully? Or does it provide a full-fledged 
>analysis of market formation in early civilisations? Again, I doubt it does…
> 
> I suspect serious misconceptions and misnomers on general discussion. 
>Especially if we go into details of ancient economy, it is evident that the 
>idea behind economic relationship of modern times definitely is not same as we 
>suppose for ancient times. I will not go into detail of this for now, but at 
>first hand we should differentiate between primitive surplus and accumulated 
>capital, then distinguish staples from markets. 
> 
> Let me illustrate more precisely:
> Saving up livelihood to keep good conditions for tomorrow, or accumulating 
>resources to build up a cistern has nothing to do with capital accumulation. 
>Those kinds of activities can even be attributed to animal species; like ants 
>accumulating grains in their hive to feed next generations. As any other 
>animal species in the world, human beings were also determined to protect 
>their communal vitality. I argue that distinctive feature of capitalist 
>accumulation is a “profit for investment, investment for profit” loop. This 
>loop requires and involves an appropriate class casting whose tasks and duties 
>are defined in a capitalist mode of resource allocation, otherwise we cannot 
>draw a line of distinction between profit-driven activities and public benefit 
>expenditures. Using aggregated surplus for militarist superiority or meeting 
>religious needs appears to me as non-economic activities. Thus what I believe, 
>saving for future, or investments that are subjected to re-production of l
>  ife (building aqueducts, cisterns) are pre-capitalist activities, better 
>should be named as early public expenditures. 
> 
> Another issue is market autonomy that I consider as prerogative of capitalist 
>world-systems. I believe in the existence of self-governed markets as I 
>believe its is a product of economic liberalism. In ancient economies markets 
>were dominated by a rather complex set of institutional structures, customs, 
>taboos and religious affiliations. Specific role-definitions were involved in 
>market participation and even the locations of staples or marketplaces were 
>determined by a number of non-economic criteria. In such circumstances, it 
>would not be appropriate to refer early-market formations in designing the 
>fundamentals of modern economic system.
> 
> My arguments are open to discussion. Your comments and criticisms are 
>welcome, and any reading suggestions are strongly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks for your interest and best regards 
> 
> Ozgur Tacer
> METU Sociology, MA.
> 
> --  
> He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become 
>a monster. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you. 
> Nietzche
> 




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               ANDRE    GUNDER      FRANK

Senior Fellow                                      Residence
World History Center                    One Longfellow Place
Northeastern University                            Apt. 3411
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Tel: 617 - 373 4060                     Fax:    617-948 2316
Web-page:csf.colorado.edu/agfrank/     e-mail:franka@fiu.edu

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