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Well the Black Book of Communism is riddled with fraud; using
CIA and pro-fascist (literally, not metaphorically) sources among
others. Yes, too many people died, but that book is a piece of stupid
propaganda worthy of the Nazi propaganda machine. Numbers like 25 million or 100
million are just silly. Anyone who died of hunger or disease in the USSR was
considered a victim of Marxism for example. And just how many people died in the
Congo, Phillipines, India, South America, and capitalist China during the
1930's? Capitalism's record, however, is quite clearly documented.
Alan Spector
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:09
PM
Subject: Re: estimating fatalities in the
war in Afghanistan
Well, there's this Black Book of Communism. I am unaware that there's a
Black Book of Capitalism or Imperialism.
So, if we were to take the same period covered by the Black Book of
Communism -- 1917-1990 -- what would we get?
At 10:34 am -0600 8/12/01, Alan Spector wrote:
I appreciate the issues raised by Gert. There
are problems with the details, of course, because the Iraqi Army was large
and its forces were concentrated. So the numbers of Taliban soldiers killed
might not be so great. But the civilian casualties....how to estimate
them? A child cannot get medical care, or food is so scarce that her immune
system is weakened, and then dies because the family was made homeless by
the bombing. And many more will die because of that. (Just as the casualties
in Serbia should include those who needlessly died/die because the bridges
and roads were destroyed by NATO bombing......capitalism somehow has a way
of conveniently ignoring the "collateral damage.)
It is an important question that should be
pursued.
Alan Spector
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----- Original Message -----
From: g
kohler
To: wsn
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 9:41 AM
Subject: estimating fatalities in the war in
Afghanistan
During the US war in Vietnam "body counts"
were a daily media routine. In contrast, the war in Afghanistan is not
reported in this fashion. How many people - military, paramilitary,
civilian - have died in the war in Afghanistan during the first two months
- Oct 7 - Dec 7, 2001 (fall of Kandahar)?
One way to estimate this figure is by
comparison with the Gulf war against Iraq of the 1990s. The duration and
ferocity of the wars against Iraq and against the Taliban appear to be
quite similar. Furthermore the armaments and techniques of warfare are
comparable - tanks, machine guns (and some air planes at the
beginning of the war) on the Taliban or Iraq side and superior massive
high-tech airpower on the American and alliance side, combined
with ground forces.
Result of this estimate, based on the
similarity of the two wars = 100,000 to 200,000 fatalities. If this
estimate is dependable, then the 3,900 American and non-American citizens
who were killed on 11 Sept 2001 (in New York, Pentagon - according to the
most recent casualty report) have been avenged by the death of
100,000 to 200,000 Afghanis, less one American CIA agent. Considering the
number of enemy soldiers who have been found killed with their hands tied
behind their backs, the conduct of the war by the Coalition Against
Terror has been very efficient up to now, but corresponds in no way to
the criteria of a just war - (a) proportionality, (b) no
civilian casualties, (c) no extermination of POWs. As a matter of
observation, counter-terrorist warfare (=counterinsurgency) never
complies with the criteria of just war. Examples are many - French and
American wars in Vietnam and Indochina, French war against Algerian
independence 1954-62, South African Whites against South African Blacks
1961-1990, others. The above estimate is tentative and preliminary, also
bearing in mind that the war continues and that the commander in chief
predicted a "long war".
Gert Kohler
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