Re: "Spiral" and complex systems

Pat, Warren and company,
The power of spirals as a method, as a vision, or as a symbol, is quite 
common among amazonic indians, andean people, and I suspect that in many 
other cultures and regions of the world (look at the arab cultures, for 
example).
Perhaps the mathematics of the future will be oriented toward them.
In the amazonic cosmo-vision, which is highly complex, jungle is a 
magic-spiritual world full of spirals. Hunters know well that the spiral 
strategy is needed to understand the prey, and to avoid becoming the hunted 
ones.
For them, serpents are sacred animals because they take the shape of 
different spirals and may move underground, over-ground, over water, under 
water, under the floor leaves, over the trees. They only fail to fly. But 
the flying-dragon of orient, or the feathered-serpent of aztecas are like 
flying serpents.
Unfortunatelly, occident made of serpents the symbol of evil, demon and 
sin. 
Christian icons use to step over serpents.
Have you thought about a linear-art: actors, singers and dancers would end 
far outside the scenary, and their own limits.
By the way, a colombian biologist Bernardo Martinez (already dead, who was 
heavily consulted by US-visiting researchers, but did not like to write, he 
just chated) explained in a conference that indian chacras (or 
cultivations) 
were frequently planted in an spiral pattern and mixed with other vegetal 
species.
Amazonians assured that it gathers the energy of sun-water-air-earth 
better. 
I ignore if this matches with linear measurements of efficiency, but it 
surely does with what Vandana Shiva has reported from Himalayan peasants.
Ok, be indulgent with this especulation. It will not be the last one from 
me. Regards,
Emilio
**************
From: Pat Loy <PLoy@compuserve.com>
"Dear Pat,

         Your background is indeed different from mine.  I do not
understand one word of what you have written and I do not know why that
should bother me.  Nevertheless, it does.  Has Frankenstein's monster
engulfed us?  Have the "two cultures" split irreparably?  Or is there
hope?

         Warren"


Dear Warren,

Take heart!  We may use different words, but we are saying the same things.


We both understand that the current world-system serves certain
inegalitarian purposes and we have a pretty good idea of "how it works"
(thanks largely to some good WS analysis over the past 30 years or so).
Moreover, we both would like to see a new world-system emerge that serves
egalitarian purposes, and we agree that this task needs to be directly
addressed. Our values are in sync.

There is no cultural split.  In fact, the fields that seriously study
complex systems are closer than ever. We may express ourselves differently,
but the message is the same.

Regards, Pat

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com