RE: Non-DOGMATIC capitalists

>Elson: The world-system perspective asserts -- contra conventional Marxism
>and supporters
>of
>capitalism (such as yourself) -- that capitalism is not a phenomenon of 
>countries,
>but rather that all states are political units of the capitalist
>world-system.  Cuba nor
>the US are "systems", but are rather parts of this system.  That workers
>movements seized
>power in some states did not suddenly "de-link" them from the system
>of which they are part.
>
>George: Should a social revolution occur in Germany involving the 
>establishment of a
>workers' republic you cannot argue that such a workers republic forms part 
>of the
>capitalist world-system. To suggest that a German workers' republic forms
>part of that
>capitalist world-system is to suggest that there has been no social
>revolution in Germany.

If, the seizure of power by workers in Germany were to occur as part of a 
global
movement (not as socialism in one country) at a time when the entire system 
was
breaking down and capital was becoming fractured, something like perhaps 
the 1930s,
then we'd be discussing an entirely different scenario.

But this wasn't the scenario you described.  So, the view I'm putting forth 
suggests
that a transformation from private to public enterprises in Germany, along 
with the
essential continuity of German foreign policy that would no doubt follow of 
not
exporting revolution via armed force to other, especially neighboring 
countries
(which is to thus obey the rules of the bourgeois interstate 
system/world-economy),
would not amount to an overthrow of the capitalist world-system anymore 
than the
Russian "revolution."  Revolution, as many world-systemists see it, means 
radical
transformation of the social system, not simply a change of government in 
one of its
constituent states.  A social revolution in Germany on its own would not 
and could
not end the dynamics of capitalism, either "economically" or "politically."

This is to also suggest that were such an event to happen, German capital 
would flee
wholesale to other states and that other core states would probably put 
trade
embargos or some kind of economic pressures on Germany or worse, and as this
happened, the new government would face severe financial/economic hard 
times.  It
would also be undermined more directly by anti-communist forces within and 
outside
the political borders supported by, for instance, the CIA.  These are all 
forces of
the capitalist world-system.  The government would probably collapse after 
not too
long (say within 70 years at the longest).  Barring involvement in a global 
scale
movement, it is probably best for Germans to continue along the same path 
of pursuing
benefits vis-a-vis the welfare-state.   Of course, this too has its limits, 
as
capital will flee for cheaper labor in those sectors that it can move 
abroad.

>Indeed your argument is the Stalinist socialism in one country thesis in
>reverse. It lent
>support to the view that socialism in one country is possible while you are
>of the view
>that only socialism in one world is possible.
>Warm regards
>George Pennefather

Yes, I agree with this characterization.   Capital can, to a certain 
degree, flee
revolutions in one country and welfare states (but it still needs highly 
educated
human- and fixed- capital, which is still primarily available only in the 
core, which
drives up all core labor costs, but thus also provides the incomes to 
absorb world
output).  For the foreseeable future, capital cannot flee the earth to find 
cheaper
labor.  And that's among the basic limitations of the modern world-system 
which is
leading to an irresolvable crisis, perhaps during the next cyclical 
downturn (ca
2020)?

Anyhow, even if you and others don't agree on this view, I think we are on 
the same
side and that we should find and extend common grounds for solidarity as 
part of a
global movement.  I think we should discuss how we can be organizing a 
united front,
what it should do, and how it should do it.  These are the pressing issues 
in my
view.

cheers,
elson